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MY AZZ!
Never thought I'd see the day when folks would be totin 'shootin benches' to the field but I guess this just proves how some generations swallow the kool aid of commercialism and try to shortcut from learning old time field positions without adhering to the iron-clad rules of marksmanship!! this IS the long range shooting area,isn't it? obviously you are clueless. We strive to make the first shot count. How do you shoot long rangs accurately in waste high hay fields or over 1/2 grown corn stalks. OFFHAND? again, you're obviously NOT a long range shooter.Snipers were used in WW2 and have been improoving ever since,what make you think it is swallowing the kool aid of commercialism? only thing i can think of is We know how to apply the new technology and use it effectively. Merry Cristmas whats wrong with draging a bench to the field? "groundhog hunting" here in PA having a loaded firearm IN ON or AGAINST a vehicle is ILLEGAL. Should i explain "having the bench?" yes, deer hunting too. or should i stalk closer and use iron-clad rules of marksmanship REALLY? HECK, I can pick any one i want! doe season? - pick one without a fawn not a button buck? buck season? - count points etc... 6.7x47 Lapua 140gr "hunting" Berger VLD easily and many times averages just under 2.5" 5 shot groups at 500yds! thats under 1/2MOA at 500yds you want to set,lay in the mud or wet grass, go ahead and we promise not to laugh at you. you want to walk over there and "hunt bear?" go ahead, as i will be watching from here I'll "watch your back" you try to use your sneaky primitive methods on him, you're gonna loose!
Last edited by rem06; 12/22/13.
is that extra 25fps worth detonation? NRA life member
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MY AZZ!
Never thought I'd see the day when folks would be totin 'shootin benches' to the field but I guess this just proves how some generations swallow the kool aid of commercialism and try to shortcut from learning old time field positions without adhering to the iron-clad rules of marksmanship!! this IS the long range shooting area,isn't it? obviously you are clueless. We strive to make the first shot count. How do you shoot long rangs accurately in waste high hay fields or over 1/2 grown corn stalks. OFFHAND? again, you're obviously NOT a long range shooter.Snipers were used in WW2 and have been improoving ever since,what make you think it is swallowing the kool aid of commercialism? only thing i can think of is We know how to apply the new technology and use it effectively. Merry Cristmas whats wrong with draging a bench to the field? "groundhog hunting" here in PA having a loaded firearm IN ON or AGAINST a vehicle is ILLEGAL. Should i explain "having the bench?" yes, deer hunting too. or should i stalk closer and use iron-clad rules of marksmanship REALLY? HECK, I can pick any one i want! doe season? - pick one without a fawn not a button buck? buck season? - count points etc... 6.7x47 Lapua 140gr "hunting" Berger VLD easily and many times averages just under 2.5" 5 shot groups at 500yds! thats under 1/2MOA at 500yds you want to set,lay in the mud or wet grass, go ahead and we promise not to laugh at you. you want to walk over there and "hunt bear?" go ahead, as i will be watching from here I'll "watch your back" you try to use your sneaky primitive methods on him, you're gonna loose! You're missing something! You forgot to 'concrete it in'!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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I would've, but I used all my concrete making wheels...it's much easier than chiseling them from rocks...
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Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Folding sticks are MUCH easier to use on uneven ground than a tripod. I tried one my guide had on an elk hunt a couple of years ago and it was hard to get it set for a bull that was moving around while sitting on uneven/rocky ground.
I've used folding crossed sticks several times.
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It continues to amaze me how gadgetry has given younger generations of Americans the ill-conceived perception that they're proficient enough when utilizing the very gadgetry which has stolen their ability to be accomplished by way of inherent instinct, or lack thereof. Every day it seems, I'm reminded again of how young Americans have almost completely lost the ability to become instinctual woodsmen. I blame the ease and convenience and total comfort of living within the United States and the subsequent entitlement attitude that's ensued thereof, for the loss younger Americans' instinctual abilities. Anyway .....
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It continues to amaze me how gadgetry has given younger generations of Americans the ill-conceived perception that they're proficient enough when utilizing the very gadgetry which has stolen their ability to be accomplished by way of inherent instinct, or lack thereof. Every day it seems, I'm reminded again of how young Americans have almost completely lost the ability to become instinctual woodsmen. I blame the ease and convenience and total comfort of living within the United States and the subsequent entitlement attitude that's ensued thereof, for the loss younger Americans' instinctual abilities. Anyway ..... I think this is a blanket bull [bleep] statement. For long range I take advantage of anything that will help. That means sitting, standing, kneeling, Bi pod, sling up and shooting off anything god has to offer in the way of rocks logs and stumps. Will I shoot off a table if there is one available? hell yeah. I've shot against some of the best long range shooters in this country and didn't give up much if any from position shooting but for long range why pass up a solid rest?
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Norma Mag:
I agree with the use of whatever's handy when flinging an arrow or firing a bullet at game. Over the course of my long hunting career, I've used all sorts of things when shooting, both natural aids and artificial aids. But, the artificial aids were things like ice axes, packframes, wood axes, boots, to name a few. I kill animals when they're close and when they're far away. I'm usually not carrying a shooting bench on my back when I'm in the back country. And, I don't hunt big game animals in areas where shooting benches are just laying about, waiting to be employed. For that matter, I've never hunted from an artificial blind, such as a semi-enclosed or completely enclosed structure. I'm kind of an "on the ground and by my own wits" type of professional killer. I've spent my entire life honing woodsmanship skill, stalking ability and killing efficiency and I tend to stay away from things that remove the challenges inherent to hunting and then killing. One thing I have noticed in all the years, is that with each younger generation that comes along, they tend to become lazier. Again, that's attributed to the progressively easier and more convenient and comfortably modern American lifestyle.
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I'm usually not carrying a shooting bench on my back when I'm in the back country. And, I don't hunt big game animals in areas where shooting benches are just laying about, waiting to be employed. For that matter, I've never hunted from an artificial blind, such as a semi-enclosed or completely enclosed structure. Well, how can you comment here then? Just want to be a Nay-sayer? and talk about lazy kids? my bench comes off the truck,not carried. Maybe you should watch this post then,tri-pods are rather light and much easier to carry as technology carries on. I have 9-13 Harris leg notch,swivel bi-pods clipped on my LR rigs all the time. Africa is not opposed to using shooting sticks. this box produced 4 bucks this year bi-pod stand if i were to have a tri-pod, i wouldnt even have to lay on the groung as the snow just melted and it was major muddy. Not that im lazy or afraid of mud,but maybe a bit smarter? this is the most recient tri pod that i have been trying http://www.mcfaden.com/tripod.htmlmainly at the last pic above at bear camp in place of the picnic table or bench in the woods. Although it is nice,solid but the swivel "circle" sometimes bottoms out. Price is nice
Last edited by rem06; 12/25/13.
is that extra 25fps worth detonation? NRA life member
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I have no doubt whatsoever that bipods and monopods have their place in the shooting world and certainly in the hunting world. I don't advocate against them. African hunting is a case in point, whereas a client has an assortment of bearers who are toting all sorts of back-up and supportive devices.
However, I prefer that my clients leave such items at home when coming on a hunt (with me) because those items are just too cumbersome and too problematic to use in the field when there's merely two persons (guide and client) doing the hunting.
During the past 40+ years I've seen more opportunities lost by clients who've tried to deploy or employ a tripod or bipod or monopod, than animals killed when using said devices.
There's a lot to be said about being proficient with your weapon from the prone, sitting, kneeling and standing positions when in the field and while using improvised rests (boulders, rocks, ledges, limbs, bushes, trees, packframes, ice axes, etc).
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They're a lot less of a pain in the ass than missing or tracking something that's been hit in the guts, yeah?
If it takes more than 2 seconds for a guy to flip out the legs on a bipod attached to a rifle, there's something going wrong, in my mind.
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Flipping two legs out on a bipod isn't the only thing to consider, during a shooting action or shooting scenario.
Obstacles also need to be considered and that's usually where things go awry, when guys deploy those bipod legs and settle in behind the scope, only to then realize that they can't see the target.
In the end, it would of just been easier to employ a traditional shooting position that was quickly assessed to give the adequate sight clearance.
A case in point [and this isn't the only example of such things having occurred during my tenure as a guide] is when a beautiful silvertip mountain grizzly suddenly appeared at less than 60 yards while a client and I were debating whether or not to kill a rather large bull caribou. The client quickly deployed the legs of his bipod and then nestled prone on the ground, only to realize that he was too low and couldn't see the bear. The client then stood and with all the commotion that was going on, the bear -- a dandy 7-1/2 footer -- leapt into the willows and was gone.
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I was in my deer blind on Tuesday and had a nice heard of Axis 511 yards away. There was one real nice hard horned buck. I put my Z-5 on 18X and put the Sako 85, 7mm-08 out the window on the ledge. I had a great sight picture but without a rear support, I could not hold it steady enough to make an ethical shot. So, I have seen these Caldwell deadshot tripods, Bog Pod makes a rig which fits on their tri pod which supports the front and rear of the rifle. I was thinking about one of these or using a bog pod, bipod, as a rear rest.
Anybody using a similar set-up for the longer range shots? Take a look at the Stoneypoint Polecat tripod and their additional rear support. A friend has one and it works extremely well, and would be just the thing for use in a blind. A quick search online turned up the pic below which shows it quite well
Last edited by Pete E; 12/25/13.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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MY AZZ!
Never thought I'd see the day when folks would be totin 'shootin benches' to the field but I guess this just proves how some generations swallow the kool aid of commercialism and try to shortcut from learning old time field positions without adhering to the iron-clad rules of marksmanship!! this IS the long range shooting area,isn't it? obviously you are clueless. We strive to make the first shot count. How do you shoot long rangs accurately in waste high hay fields or over 1/2 grown corn stalks. OFFHAND? again, you're obviously NOT a long range shooter.Snipers were used in WW2 and have been improoving ever since,what make you think it is swallowing the kool aid of commercialism? only thing i can think of is We know how to apply the new technology and use it effectively. Merry Cristmas whats wrong with draging a bench to the field? "groundhog hunting" here in PA having a loaded firearm IN ON or AGAINST a vehicle is ILLEGAL. Should i explain "having the bench?" yes, deer hunting too. or should i stalk closer and use iron-clad rules of marksmanship REALLY? HECK, I can pick any one i want! doe season? - pick one without a fawn not a button buck? buck season? - count points etc... 6.7x47 Lapua 140gr "hunting" Berger VLD easily and many times averages just under 2.5" 5 shot groups at 500yds! thats under 1/2MOA at 500yds you want to set,lay in the mud or wet grass, go ahead and we promise not to laugh at you. you want to walk over there and "hunt bear?" go ahead, as i will be watching from here I'll "watch your back" you try to use your sneaky primitive methods on him, you're gonna loose! Sounds like a really exciting way to "hunt". The truck close by is nice when it's cold....no
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I was in my deer blind on Tuesday and had a nice heard of Axis 511 yards away. There was one real nice hard horned buck. I put my Z-5 on 18X and put the Sako 85, 7mm-08 out the window on the ledge. I had a great sight picture but without a rear support, I could not hold it steady enough to make an ethical shot. So, I have seen these Caldwell deadshot tripods, Bog Pod makes a rig which fits on their tri pod which supports the front and rear of the rifle. I was thinking about one of these or using a bog pod, bipod, as a rear rest.
Anybody using a similar set-up for the longer range shots? Hey Buzzsaw, most here are not hunting from deer blinds This is what I do. Buy a monopod, the lightest, shortest and least complicated possible. The front rest is the deer blind window. As an illustration the blue chair is the window ledge. Set the monopod even with the window Use the monopod as a rear rest at a slant under the butt You can raise or lower the butt by using your left hand to move the tip of the monopod forward or backward on the carpet (you do have carpet in your stand don't you ). Steady as a bench. Open it up and set it in a corner like you do your gun Get one that's short when folded up I carry mine in my pack
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Criminals prefer unarmed victims and dictators prefer unarmed citizens
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That set up works well. Prone shooting is not an option in the type of terrain that I hunt on the east coast. I'll often hunt from natural blinds and when longer shots present themselves, I use this setup: Bog-Pod tripod, stoney point monopod, and a day pack that opens into a chair. It's rock steady and has worked well for me.
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I have no doubt whatsoever that bipods and monopods have their place in the shooting world and certainly in the hunting world. I don't advocate against them. African hunting is a case in point, whereas a client has an assortment of bearers who are toting all sorts of back-up and supportive devices.
However, I prefer that my clients leave such items at home when coming on a hunt (with me) because those items are just too cumbersome and too problematic to use in the field when there's merely two persons (guide and client) doing the hunting.
During the past 40+ years I've seen more opportunities lost by clients who've tried to deploy or employ a tripod or bipod or monopod, than animals killed when using said devices.
There's a lot to be said about being proficient with your weapon from the prone, sitting, kneeling and standing positions when in the field and while using improvised rests (boulders, rocks, ledges, limbs, bushes, trees, packframes, ice axes, etc).
Maverick940 +100 And your post hits exactly upon the reason for my initial posting! Once upon a time we were a nation of Riflemen; now...especially with the younger generation we've become a nation of 'gadget-getters' that are to friggin lazy to learn the field positions of old or how to shoot offhand when necessary! I see those hunting Africa using scopes to hunt dangerous game when in fact a set of irons would be more appropriate....provided they knew how to use them but that is a bygone conclusion! I can't think of anything more frightening than to have a scope sighted .375 when before me is a charging lion or cape buffalo when in fact a .470 Evans double rifle with barrel sights would be the order of the day!! I have no problems with using a bench to zero a rifle, or a bipod/forward rest for participating in competition such as F/Class or for zapping prairie dogs but for general hunting purposes some of the things I've seen would be a total PITA!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Flipping two legs out on a bipod isn't the only thing to consider, during a shooting action or shooting scenario.
Obstacles also need to be considered and that's usually where things go awry, when guys deploy those bipod legs and settle in behind the scope, only to then realize that they can't see the target.
In the end, it would of just been easier to employ a traditional shooting position that was quickly assessed to give the adequate sight clearance.
A case in point [and this isn't the only example of such things having occurred during my tenure as a guide] is when a beautiful silvertip mountain grizzly suddenly appeared at less than 60 yards while a client and I were debating whether or not to kill a rather large bull caribou. The client quickly deployed the legs of his bipod and then nestled prone on the ground, only to realize that he was too low and couldn't see the bear. The client then stood and with all the commotion that was going on, the bear -- a dandy 7-1/2 footer -- leapt into the willows and was gone. I've seen much of the same. Guys dicking around with their bipods when they should have been shooting, only to see the animal walk into the brush or over the hill. 'Tis a frustrating thing to watch. Most of it comes down to being proficient with one's weapon, though. It's not like a guy can't still shoot sitting, kneeling, or offhand with a bipod attached.
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Campfire Kahuna
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The funniest one I saw was a guy who wanted to shoot a mule deer buck 175 yards away across a draw. The buck was bedded, and all the guy had to do was sit down and shoot it. Instead he deployed his bipod (CLICK! CLICK!) then lay down on the hill three of us were standing on.
About the time the guy was finally on his belly, the buck got tired of looking at us and stood up. He still wasn't exactly spooked, but didn't want to hang around anymore, so started walking up the opposite hillside, stopping once in a while to pose broadside.
The rounded hill we were on leveled out behind is, and as the buck gained in elevation, the "shooter" kept sliding backward up the slope to keep his bipod on the ground. Eventually, though the buck neared to top of its hill--which was higher than ours--and the guy had to raise his rifle higher than the bipod's legs could reach. To counter-balance the rifle/bipod, he had to raise his legs, so was eventually supported only by his belly.
The buck kept trying to get killed, and stopped one last time just below the top of the ridge. The guy knew it was now or never, so pulled the trigger, and the bullet didn't even kick up dust anywhere we could see. At that point the buck finally decided to vamoose. Somehow I don't think a tripod or other multi-legged rest would have helped.
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