Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Hard Cast Lead Bullets - answers please

I'm just starting to learn about loading for hard cast bullets and have a bunch of questions. Instead of listing them all at once, I'm going to try to keep this thread going by asking one or two at a time so none of them get forgotten.

I've been reloading cast lead bullets for my revolvers since the early 80s, but until recently, using only soft bullets for mild plinking loads. For max loads I've stuck with jacketed bullets to avoid leading issues. And I've never gotten anywhere near the accuracy with cast lead bullets (compared to jacketed), until recently.

A while back I started experimenting with hard cast bullets for a S&W model 29 and getting serious about hunting with it some day. With max loads I found I can get accuracy just as good as with jacketed bullets, and 150+ fps velocity using the same bullet weight and same charge of powder (for example, 300 grn Sierra JHC vs. 300 grn Hunter's Supply with 17.5 grns 2400).

Is it normal to get so much higher velocity from a cast bullet? It kind of makes sense in that the friction between the bullet and barrel could be less with the lube used for lead bullets.

Also, using 250 grn cast bullets with 20.2 grns 2400, I got nearly 100+ fps more with one brand of cast bullet vs. another. Is that kind of thing expected? What would cause that? Different bullet diameters or lubes maybe?

I just got a BFR Casull I've started loading for and have a bunch more questions, but I'm hoping someone will tell me what I've seen so far makes sense.

Yes, the lead slides with less resistance to the bore so often lead bullets can be pushed to a higher velocity than jacketed.

As to different bullets of the same weight going different velocities from the same powder charge, if the bullet design is different so that there is more shank than nose from one to the other this will cause velocity differences because the bullets will generate different pressures. If the bullets are the same design then you may want to measure their actual diameter as one may be larger than the other...it could also be of a different alloy causing more pressure...

Bob

In my case, I used 250 grn CheyCast bullets that are .430 and they had a higher velocity than Oregon Cast bullets of the same weight of .431".

I'm used to seeing differences in velocity with jacketed rifle bullets of the same weight and charge, but not this much (as a percent of total anyway). Just eyeballing these two bullets, they seem to have pretty much the same shape.

Velocity difference could be a combination of the final size, and the metallurgical makeup (the alloy) of the bullet. I doubt the lube chosen will be different enough to be a factor since all commercial casters use very hard lubes.

So, if I understand things right, for hard cast bullets to work they should be hard enough to not deform at the impact velocity but not so hard that they will break apart.

I've bought some Cast Performance bullets that have a BH of 18-21. For a big game animal, what range of velocities would they work for?

Is this a question that can have a simple answer?

The bullet needs to be able to slug up to the bore.....hard bullets have to be driven faster than soft bullets....typically.

I would have to disagree with that. As long as they are sized correctly and the cylinder throats and forcing cone are the appropriate sizes a hardcast bullet with shoot just as accurately as a soft one at target velocities...

As to the question of hardness, impact velocities and bullet breakup, it depends more on the makeup of the bullet than the impact velocity. Gary Reeded runs a .41/255 Cast performance at 2K fps and puts them out the other side of a buffalo.... The bullet wouldn't do that if it were breaking up...

Bob

Cast performance makes a good bullet. I've had great luck with their stuff. You don't need to drive any of these hard cast bullets hard. They will perform very well at the 1000-1200fps range. They penetrate very well and kill with authority if the proper meplat is used. There is a lot of experienced hunters on here. Hopefully more will chime in.

My experience with casting isn't particularly noteworthy, except to say, that my bullets are done with a setup that a true caster would turn his or her nose up at. I don't have a hardness tester. I don't recast the frosty ones and I don't worry about weighing them individually after I cast them as I've weighed the first few to drop from the mould and I'm satisfied after that.

I know that my hard cast bullets, driven to 1000 or 1200fps are veeerrry accurate and will do really bad things to flesh. I know that I might get a little leading after 50 rounds at the bench and that I can clean it out afterward.

So...for me, there's no mystery. I don't spend countless hours contemplating whether or not I'm doing it right or if my results are typical.

I'm sort of an accidental caster. Some years back I did an article for Guns & Ammo Military Surplus Edition about casting for MilSurp rifles. My set up was soooo hillbilly I thought I'd get laughed off the pages. Turns out, I got a lot of great responses from that article.

Don't make it harder than it really is. Pardon the pun.

Best and Merry Christmas

Dan

This is not really true is the bullet as long as t he hard cast bullet is not undersized

As has been stated several times on this thread, sizing is more important than alloy hardness.

at what BH does a bullet become "hard" ?

For a handgun hunting bullet IMHO from 18 to no more than 24 BNH. Water quenched wheel weights will IME be from 21 to 24. If you are not running them more than 1200 fops then 11 to 12 BNH is fine. 1300 to 1400 fps needs to be at least 18 if hunting very large game. Deer do not need as much penetration and do not have as large of bones or body size as say a buffalo

Not necessarily, just depends on what you're hunting and what you need the bullet to do. You want a bullet that obturates in the bore at least. Deformity on medium size game isn't bad, but for large game it's not too desirable. But keep in mind that a bullet can become too hard. If you get your lead bullet too hard it can become brittle, which is a disaster on truely large game. The Lyman manual covers lead alloys and hardening very well. I think every caster should have that book, and the LBT book is very good also.

This

Some thoughts;

Size to fit the throat, but not so tight chambering is forced. Bear in mind there is also some powder fouling.

Lead wants a gradual taper, full support. The fattest part must be the throat, the tightest part at the muzzle with a steady, constant diminishing taper as the bullet goes from fat to small.

Softer alloys will bump up to fit with less pressure, if you can't get a good throat fit. The problem is that they can deform during seating easier and they can also deform too much being fired through a throat into the cone in a wheelgun; deforming never helps accuracy.

Fit is king, even for jacketed bullets. The ones that are loaded straight (without deformation), also tend to shoot best.

Thanks to all. I knew I could count on some good answers.

And Kevin, I've owned a copy of that Lyman's manual for a long time. Just never paid attention to the section on cast bullets, so I'll be reading up on that tonight.

So, here's some numbers (and another question) from my chronograph for my new .454 Casull, 6.5" BFR.

Using .45 Colt Brass, 325 grn Cast Performance LBT bullets and 17.5 grns 2400, I got an average of 1172 fps with a spread of only about 20 fps from min to max.

With Buffalo Bore .45 Colt ammo with 325 grn lead bullets, I got an average of 1394 fps, even higher than they advertise. After one round, I needed to put on leather gloves.

With one round of Hornady factory ammo with 300 grn XTP, I recorded 1533 fps - Yikes! - I'll never feel the same about my .44 magnums.

So, question - if I'll use this gun for hunting elk or maybe moose, with open sites which will realistically limit me to 50 or 60 yards max, how much if anything is that extra velocity over my handloads worth?

And oh, here's a special message for you all from an old friend of mine.

You will be just fine at the 1172 fps that you have loading the 325's

I get 1500+ fps with 300 grain XTPs out of my .44 mag........rifle (grin)

Good info right here