Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Is the 6.5 SAUM that much better than the 260?

I ran 139 Scenar's through JBM with a 1500 yard maximum, 10 mph 90 degree wind and selecting yardage just above 1116 fps, velocity for both estimated with a 24" barrel. About 20 grains more powder in the 6.5 SAUM.

260 @ 2775

Range Drop (in) Drop (MOA) Windage (MOA) Velocity

600 -0.0 -0.0 24.5 3.9 1886.7
1240 -428.4 -33.0 135.0 10.4 1126.2


6.5 SAUM @ 3100

Range Drop (in) Drop (MOA) Windage (MOA) Velocity

600 -0.0 -0.0 20.6 3.3 2151.5
1440 -561.5 -37.2 163.9 10.9 1118.9


For grins, 243 and 105 Amax @ 3000 and 1/2 the recoil of the 6.5 SAUM

Range Drop (in) Drop (MOA) Windage (MOA) Velocity

600 -0.0 -0.0 25.2 4.0 1961.8
1220 -380.1 -29.8 137.2 10.7 1121.1

One other thing to add to the mix is that the 6.5 SAUM rounds have not been pressure tested. I wouldn't be surprised to see it's velocity drop a bit if that were to happen.

You probably just upped the sales of the .243.

Comparing windage at dissimilar ranges?

Are you shooting paper or hunting big game?

It really comes down to what impact velocity you want at a certain range for the bullet to be effective on game.

Some say 2000 fps, some say 1,800 fps is needed.

243's are nice for shooting paper but I personally wouldn't use one for large mule deer or elk. It starts at 6.5 for me.


(No doubt some nimrod here will show up with a bombast opinion of how great the 243 is on bull elk at long range.)

325fps faster.....pretty simple answer.

How's this for a pressure test?

This load drives a 139 scenar at 3150fps. The barrel has 2100 rounds through it, and still shoots sub .5".

'Loco

Yes, the yardage where each would be close to going subsonic.

I did include 600 as a direct comparison and the difference is about 4".

Is 200 yards worth the step up?

And at what point, when shooting 1000+?

That there is some Fugly brass Pat!

No loose primer pockets after 16 firings. Just think how many times you could load it if you actually annealed it at the PROPER interval!

The long neck is interesting, I wonder how much that contributes to long barrel life.

I am sure Pat or George can give specifics on pressure tests, but my understanding is that the 6.5 SAUM pushing the 139 at 3150 and the 130 at 3250 pressures run near or below 57,000 psi with H1000. Lower pressure contributes to longer barrel life. A decent neck length doesn't hurt either.

Russ

Would a 270WSM running on 2 more grains of H1000 have similar barrel life?

I'm not a LR shooter but WSM brass is easy to work with and make straight. Never used SAUM brass but it looks like Pat is having good luck.....grin


I hardly ever trim it and never anneal, 10-15x firings is easy for that heavy duty stuff.



Barrel life of the 6.5 SAUM is very interesting.

Adjusting the velocity according to scenarshooters real world data of 3150 for the 6.5 SAUM and 2850 for the 260 would tighten the numbers a bit.

Still 300 fps.

I haven't ran them over a chrono. I'll find the velocity when I get a chance to shoot them out to 1200 or so, and a few random ranges in between. My 139 scenar load gave 2850fps in the same rifle, with 1/10gr less powder. I'll bet 2900fps is achievable....I used my 139 scenar range card for 503M and these 136's shot the exact same. I expect them to shoot flatter as the range increases.


260 @ 2850

Range Drop (in) Drop (MOA) Windage (MOA) Velocity

600 -0.0 -0.0 23.5 3.7 1947.4
1290 -464.2 -34.4 142.7 10.6 1121.7


6.5 SAUM @ 3150

Range Drop (in) Drop (MOA) Windage (MOA) Velocity

600 -0.0 -0.0 20.1 3.2 2192.8
1470 -580.9 -37.7 168.2 10.9 1117.7

Originally Posted by excaliber
We all want faster cartridges but at what point is barrel life a concern? The 6.5x284 is one of the most accurate cartridges of all time. It has roughly 1000rd barrel life, that is 1/2 moa life. Once accuracy gets worse than that, it`s time for me to change barrel. Since the 6.5 SAUM uses more powder, I assume barrel life will be around roughly 800rds at 1/2moa. I know that some barrels last longer than others but you get the idea. If barrel life isn`t a concern, then why not just neck down the 338 Norma and be done with it? With todays high BC 7mm bullets, 180gr & (195gr hopefully soon) from Berger, why even use the 6.5? Seems like people want the newest cartridge (wildcat) but in reality is it going to beat what is already out there?


George Garder replies

"6.5x284 to get 2950 out of the 140 is running in the 68,000 PSI range


6.5 SAUM is getting 3100 with the same bullet at 55,000 PSI


There is your difference.


Yes you can Hot Rod it and wear it out fast, thats not the point of the caliber. The whole premise of this was 4 things

1. to Humanly kill [bleep] to 1200 yards.

2. barrel life of 2500

3. low recoil

4. serious accuracy


It does all 4 better than anything else. There are cartridges that do one or 2 better but not all 4."





Above is a reply from George Gardner to Excaliber I found on Sniper's hide that sums up the concept of the 6.5 SAUM and gives a pressure value.

Sorry Sam I have no idea what kind of pressure a .270 WSM would have with 2 more grains of powder. I just remembered that George had given an indication of the pressure he was getting with the 6.5.

Russ

Downloaded, okay now I understand why it works.


My friend Rancho has one and he brought it up here this Fall. Fun to shoot.

Fair amount of humor here and from lotsa angles.

I shoot ShamWow,Whizzum,25-06,25-06AI,280 and 280AI...if only for starters. Folks is quick to drink KoolAid and it's funny. I've less than zero interest in buying a V8 and unplugging a coupla cylinders,to increase "engine life".

The ShamWow is a nice cartridge case design,but for high volume Utility pursuits,it'd be wayyyyyyy down on my list of parents. That ain't because I ain't shot it.(grin) The Whizzum is a better design and though I love it and shoot it hard,that parcel wouldn't be my Utility Vehicle either.

If forced to suffer a ShamWow based Utility Rifle,I'd want it in 7mm and flingin' 162's at 2950 or so...because it will easily and from a modest lengthed spout. It'll pack more ass,velocity and less drift,while being cheaper to shoot. Fact is,the cost savings in boolits per barrel life,will grant the next spout for free. Not that the jingle is a showstopper,but yet another inherent advantage.

There's no Magic and when talkin' that much case capacity,no free lunch either. A
.532" boltface S/A,is the last place I wish to be for Utility...though they's an exceedingly tough act to follow,as Niche Rifles go.

It's ALL about wind and Oooomph.

Hint.

Right Stink, maybe them 'shamwows" will win a LR match someday. I understand why the whizzum is vastly superior, what with its shorter neck and all, them caliber plus necks are vastly overrated. Everybody knows Gardner can't build a dam rifle that'll shoot, he oughta just git hisself a Montucky!

I feel like I'm playin' cards with my brother's kids.

Take_a_knee,
Now you dun did it!! get ready to be called a dumb [bleep]...
You just ruined a good thread!!

Squat-to-pee,

I get a kick outta your perpetual dumbfhuqqtitude and your incredible cluelessness. Someone who "knows" and "does" as "much" as you,had better be asking questions...instead of giving "answers".

You are a crumb nibbling lap dog and forever eager to try and drop names,which is funnier than [bleep]. "Surprisingly" enough,when it comes to you in the firsthand,you are lightyears shy of the requisite IQ to drive a Montucky,but you sure as schit can Whine about 'em and how they whipped your stupid ass. Laffin'!

I very much enjoyed your Neck Length Chronicles,you poor poor dumb kchunt.

It is a shame,that you are devoid the faculties to understand just how amazingly stupid you are,but ignorance is bliss and you are Blisseder than most.

Bless your heart.










'fubar,

You Whining Kchunt,it's always a treat to be regaled by you in regards to all the things you almost did,with all the wares you almost had and from all the places you've almost been.

As per always,it was a GOOD call to refrain all things The Rifle and stay steadfast with your perpetual Whine and the excuses.

The only thing you shoot is your mouth and Imagination.

Saums were really nice when guys were just giving them away.