Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Varget in 300 Savage...

Deer season over.....bored.... try different things at the loading bench. Was looking into trying Varget in my 300 savage. Went to Mr. Internet / GunBroker.com message forums for insight. One post said from the Sierra Fifth Edition 44.5 grains was MAX load. Another post states in the Lyman 49th Edition 42 grains is MAX. Both were for 150 grain pill. A 2.5 max grain difference in published data concerns me a wee bit. Just trying to sort this out. I don't have any published data in any of my 4-5 manuals. Does anybody else have a book with Varget listed for 300 Savage, in particular 150 gr projectile they could pass along. I am primarily interested in the MAX loads.
Jerry

First of all you have to know what it is your looking for. Frankly, if the load you are now using works, why change? That being said, I would go with the Lyman information. Lyman is my favoite because they are not selling bullets. Start at the 42 grain recipe and work up to the Sierra (my LEAST favorite) 44.5 grain load. Work up @ .5 grs at a time and watch for normal signs of pressure. "MOST" maximum listed loads are on the conservative side to begin with. I have drifted away from IMR powders from time to time and used other powders, but somehow I always drift BACK to Dupont IMR.

What I am looking for is max load for my 300 Savage using Varget and 150 grain pill. I know different publications have different min/max data. What I was looking for was the spread between publications, and average it out. I mic cases and all the other stuff to monitor excessive pressure, but most of the signs don't show till you are well over max pressure.

Currently use IMR3031 with very good results. I use Varget in 4 different guns, and if I can get same results with Varget in my 300 Sav, less powder inventoty. Plus, I like playing at the loading bench and the range. Don't really need an excuse to do it. Keeps me out of the better halfs hair.

What he said!

I wish I could help, but I have never seen Varget for sale around here, and never could justify the HAZMAT fees to buy odd (to me) powders for experimental purposes.

Oldotter:

Varget is a great powder in the .300 Savage. I use 43.0 grains in my 99R with 150 grain Win Power Point, Win Cases, CCI BR2 primer and COL of 2.585. Velocity is right at 2650 fps and accuracy is moa and sometimes better if I am "on" my game that day. I was using the Lyman Manual which tops out at 42 grains and a pretty robust speed estimate. 43.0 grains gives good case life and accuracy is better than 42 or 42.5 grains. Your rifle might be different and may not take a high charge of 43 grains. Use a good chronograph and work up. My logic was that since at 43 grains my velocity was well under Lyman's 42 grain load, my pressure was probably in the safe range. I did not get sticky extraction. I didn't go any higher either though. Accuracy was all I had hoped for......why push harder?



Used this load to take this buck on Nov 19th at last light.

300Jimmy, Great info. Your chrony data is IMHO the best yard stick for excessive pressure. Being well under posted FPS, I would definitely feel comfortable with that load. I am not a speed demon either, more interested in accuracy. As said earlier, I am bored and attempting to whittle down the powder inventory list. Varget in my area of S.E. Michigan is as easy / hard to get as any other powder. I have an EG and a G I want to try it in. Thanks for the input. I have in the last couple years have become a huge Varget fan.
Jerry

Oldotter:

I like to burn IMR3031 too. I'll also say that I have had rifles chambered in 300 Savage that preferred IMR3031 over Varget.......meaning I got better accuracy with IMR3031. One example I recall was a 99F from the mid fifties. Each rifle is an animal unto itself. You never know until you try.

I generally settle on a 38.5 grains charge of IMR 3031 with a 150 when using that powder and seeking accuracy. Speed will be in the ballpark of 2575 fps.

I am using 308 brass resized to 300. When I tried 41gr of Varget I got sticky extraction and some primer flow into the firing pin hole.....a little too hot. I was using a 150gr Hornady bullet.

Jerry-
I worked up to the 42.0 grain load in the Lyman 49th edition, and it shot well in my EG with it's shortened (22") barrel. My load used Win brass, WLR primers and the Hornady 150 bullet. Over my Oehler chronograph, the load averaged approximately 2650 fps.

MT_DD_Fan..... More good info. Feeling better and better about this trial with Varget. If this works out, I'll thin the powder inventory and gain a few FPS to boot. Another bonus is I believe Varget is less temperature sensitive than IMR 3031.

Nosler #7 lists a range of 38.0-42.0 for their 150 grain bullets. In my Savage 99 this is where I topped out but other powders are more accurate in my rifle with 150 grain bullets. I could run more powder in an old Rem 722 .300 Savage before I re-barrelled that rifle to another cartridge. Sierra data is from a Savage 11 bolt action rifle and worked fine in my bolt. I always stayed lower in the 99.

Oldtimer:
Here is Hodgdon Reloading Data:
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Hope this gives you more information and is helpful.

I see on the Hodgdon Reloading data doesn't even list Varget powder for the 300 Savage. The Hornady manual 9th edition lists
Varget for 150grain bullets at:

2200fps= 37.6 gr
2300fps= 39.5 gr
2400fps- 41.4 gr
2500fps= 43.3 gr THIS IS WHAT THEY LIST AS MAXIMUM LOAD.

Real world results will vary.........a lot.

I worked up some loads with Varget using the Sierra 5th edition. The loads above 2600 fps, as measured from my rifle, were too hot. Sierra doesn't address the topic in their manual, but they increase the loads quite a bit from the 3rd edition to the 5th. I never owned the 4th edition. The take home point is be cautious with the Varget/Sierra data.

I checked my manuals and found only 1 listing for Varget.

Sierra's 5th Edition:



Sideways is the only way to get it all to fit.

Nothing for this combo in;
Lee 1997
Speer 13th
Nosler 5th
Hornady 7th
Hodgdon Annual Manual 2004

Hope this helps.

I found accuracy differences in my .300 by altering bullet seating depths. No idea where they sat in relation to the rifling, just concerned that they fit in the magazine. Wound up with OAL of 2.560 (150gr Grand Slams) to get the groups down from 1.4" to .96", using Reloder 15 which has performed similar to Varget for me in .250Sav.

Alliant lists R15 at 44gr with a 165gr bullet at 2614fps, so I started with my 150s and 41gr at 2443fps. At 44gr it gave 2638fps. I would expect Varget to be close at Sierra's 44.5gr level, would be outstanding if it actually made 2800fps!

I am just beginning to reload. I worked with MILES58 last fall and he worked up a good load for me using 44.5 gr. of Varget pushing a 130 gr. Barnes TTSX at about 2700 fps. By far the tighest groups I've ever shot out of this rifle with three shots all touching at 100 yards off the bench, and this with a K4 Weaver scope. Talk to MILES58 if you'd like more info on this load, as he is my "mentor" on this project.

Jeff (Gophergunner)...

I went back and re-checked my hand-loading data which I saved in my WORD File.

I stopped keeping track of the loads I used when I found the IMR4895 had "changed" and gave much lower muzzle velocities than it previously had.

I also tried Varget and found it did a poor job in my .300 Savage (EG-24" barrel) with much lower (chronographed) M.V. than either IRM3031 or H-4895.

Due to "consistency", I chose to use H4895 at a near maximum load of 40.8 grains (Max. book load = 40.9 grains of H4895) behind a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet sparked by a standard Winchester large rifle primer. This load is still my curent deer hunting load.

Below is my record of trying several different powders including Varget which I fouind yielded slower velocities than shown in a popular hand-loader's manual.

My records are a "long read", but you may find the results "interesting". All loads were chronographed and fired from a solid sandbag support off a bench-rest with a good variable scope set on 9x at 50 yards.

Here's my experience:

.300 SAVAGE RELOADING & ACCURACY TESTS RESULTS


.300 SAVAGE TEST RESULTS (6/17/02)
(temps 73� to 75�)


PRIMER TESTS (6/17/02):
40.0 gr. IMR3031 (max. load), 150 gr. Nosler Bal.Tip, 2X-fired Winchester cases

CCI-Bench rest: 2681, 2657, 2657 fps. (Avg. 2667 fps) (2 velocities unknown)

FEDERAL: 2659, 2648, 2652, 2648 & 2661 fps. (Avg. 2654 fps.)
Std. Deviation: 13 fps., (+7 fps., -6 fps.)

REMINGTON: 2618, 2610, 2623, 2603 & 2640 (Avg. 2618 fps.)

WINCHESTER STD: 2646, 2636, 2638, 2648 & 2653 (Avg. 2644 fps.)
Std. Deviation: 17 fps. (+9 fps., -8 fps.)


VELOCITY RESULTS using IMR4064, Rem.9� primer & Win. Cases
41.8 grains gave a 5-shot average of 2598 fps,
42.0 gr. = 2608 fps,
42.2 gr = 2635 fps,
42.4 gr. = 2628 fps,
42.6 gr. = 2623 fps,
42.8 gr. = 2609 fps
43.0 gr. = 2634 fps. (maximum load)

Accuracy was good with most loads printing (at 50 yards) 3-shot groups of 3/8th inch and 4-shot groups of 3/4th inch. However, there was always one �flier�� and occasionally 2 �fliers�.

Note the unusual variation in these loads wherein more powder yields less velocity with all other components remaining the same. Since this is normally unlikely, it is possible the relatively heavy crushing of powder granules during bullet seating may account for this unusual velocity differential.


CONCLUSION-IMR4064 RIFLE POWDER

The last 5 velocities attained in this test, from 42.2 grains to 43.0 grains are questionable. The 43.0 grain load IS definitely a �maximum load� and yields only 2634 fps. It is a heavily compressed load & this may be the reason for the unusual velocity readings. I doubt that IMR4064 is the best powder for my particular M-99 in .300 Savage caliber. Of course, it�s also possible a different primer (Rem. 9� was used) may yield different results.


PRESSURE INDICATIONS: 6/17/02 (74�)

IMR3031- Using 40.0 grains (max. load), loaded 5 rounds using each of the four different primers after short �work up� to that level. All primers showed some flattening with CCI-Bench Rest & Remington primers showing 95%-100% flattening. Winchester std. Large rifle primer showing about 80% flattening and Federal showing some machine marks and about 60% flattening.

IMR4895(loaded in 1999 using powder purchased in 1995)- At 41.5 grains (max. load) using Remington 9� primer and Winchester cases gave the following velocities in the order of 1 through 5 shots- 2728, 2718, 2696, 2702 & 2692 for an average velocity of 2707 fps. Primers were 80% flattened. These rounds were loaded in 1999 for use in the old M-99 w/22� barrel.

IMR4064- Loaded 5 rounds at each load-level starting at 41.8 grains increasing in .2 grain increments to 43.0 grains. The first 2 of 5 rounds @ 43.0 grains using Remington 9� primers had 100% flattened primers. This is definitely a �maximum load� at 2634 fps average velocity. The last 3 rounds flattened 90% , but still had some �rounding� to them. Next lighter loaded rounds (42.8 grains) showed no flatten of primers.

CONCLUSIONS OF 6/17/02 TESTS:
1. Use 3-shot groups ONLY in future testing.
2. New loads should be �worked up� with IMR3031, IMR4895 and IMR4064 powders using only Federal and Winchester primers.
3. Special notice should be paid to the velocity/accuracy of all IMR4895 loads because it is yielding higher than expected velocities while IMR3031 loads are not yielding �published� velocities.
4. The higher velocities yielded by the IMR 4895 may be due to the 24-inch barrel on the newer M-99 vs. the older 22-inch barrel on the old M-99 and the 22-inch test rifle barrel used by Lyman to get data for their Reloading Handbook.
5. Velocities attained from the use of IMR4064 are inconclusive due to wide variation in velocities while powder amounts differed little.





TESTS CONDUCTED JUNE 24, 2002

Firing tests were done using equal charges of just purchased IMR4895 powder comparing Winchester primers to Federal primers. I expected Federal primers to come out not only being more consistent, but also giving more velocity and better accuracy. This did not happen. The Winchester primers showed very good consistency and the best accuracy, especially at or close to maximum charges.

As fouling shots, I again used 5 of the rounds loaded as hunting loads in 1999 using Remington 9� primers & 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet. Again, the 5 rounds consisting of 41.5 grains of IMR4895 (bgt. in 1995) had an average velocity over 2700 fps (2704 fps). I can only conclude the increased velocity must be due to the old powder.

Velocity & accuracy were excellent using Winchester Standard Large Rifle Primers with just purchased IMR4895 with the largest 3 powder charges. These results using 3-shot groups fired at 50 YARDS were:
 41.1 grains yielded a group measuring .112-inches @ 2647 fps. Deviation was 13 fps, +6 fps. / -7 fps.
 41.3 grains yielded a group measuring .221-inches @ 2660 fps. Deviation (2-shots only) was 4 fps, +3 fps / -1 fps.
 41.5 grains yielded a group measuring .191-inches @ 2664 fps. Deviation was 19 fps, +9/ -10 fps. This will be my �hunting load�.

Accuracy was good using the Federal primers for two of the three shots. In most cases, two rounds were either in the same, elongated hole or close to it, but in almost all cases, there was one �flier� that was close to one inch away from the other two shots thus making the group not acceptable. 41.3 grains of IMR4895 and the Federal primers produced a 7/16th inch group (.4375-inches) @ 2665 fps.

The following loads were tested using just purchased IMR4895 powder, Winchester 3X fired cases and Nosler 150 grain Ballistic Tip bullets. All cases trimmed to 1.865 inches. Average range temperature during test = 80� to 85�.
Powder load:
40.3 grs.= 2591 fps (Win.)/2592 fps (Federal)
40.5 grs.= 2587 fps (Win.)/2604 fps (Fed.)
40.7 grs.= 2639 fps (Win.)/2626 fps (Fed.)
40.9 grs.= 2645 fps (Win.)/2628 fps (Fed.)
41.1 grs.= 2647 fps (Win.)/2638 fps (Fed.)
41.3 grs.= 2660 fps (Win.)/2665 fps (Fed.)
41.5 grs.= 2664 fps (Win.)/2673 fps (Fed.)


CONCLUSION: A load of 41.5 grains of IMR4895 (purchased 6/02), a Winchester Standard Large Rifle Primer, Winchester brass and a Nosler 150 grain Ballistic Tip boat-tailed bullet seated to maximum overall length gives the best accuracy & close to the highest velocity in my Savage Model 99 rifle with its 24-inch barrel. This is a high-pressure load that is shown as a �maximum load� in my Lyman Reloading Manual, but this load is not dangerously high. However, this is a �max load� using the IMR4895 purchased in June of 2002, in my opinion.

From my tests, it seems likely that my particular Model 99 Savage rifle is unusually accurate with almost any �load�. At no time was accuracy less than �very good� with any of the loads that were fired in it.

On a later date (than June 24th) during the Summer or early Autumn of 2002, I loaded 50 rounds using IMR3031 powder, a 150 grain Sierra soft point bullet, Winchester primers & cases just for �fun shooting�. I used a powder load of 38.0 grains of IMR3031� half way between the �starting� load (36.0 grains) and �maximum� load (40.0 grains) of IMR3031. This load was quite accurate, but I didn�t chronograph it. I would guess the muzzle velocity was in the 2550-2575 fps range.





June 24, 2002

Loads consisted of 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets, IMR4895 powder (purchased in June of 2002), standard Winchester large rifle primers in �accurized� Winchester cartridge cases fired at 50 yards. Temperature = 85�. Results follow:
40.3 grains = .792� & 2591 fps.
40.5 grains = .556� & 2604 fps.
40.7 grains = .515� & 2639 fps.
40.9 grains = .552� & 2645 fps.
41.1 grains = .112� & 2647 fps. Std. dev. = 13 (+6 / -7 fps).
41.3 grains = .221� & 2660 fps. Std. dev. = 4 (+3 / -1 fps).
41.5 grains = .191� & 2664 fps. Std. dev. = 19 (+9 / -10 fps).


My best (most accurate with the highest velocity) hunting load yielded a 3-shot group that had an average muzzle velocity of 2680 fps and measured .191 inches @ 50 yards (and averaged � of an inch @ 100 yards) using a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, boat-tailed bullet in front of 41.5 grains (a MAXIMUM load) of IMR4895 (powder bought in 2002) sparked by a standard large rifle Winchester primer in Winchester cases. This load had a maximum velocity deviation of 19 fps (+9 fps / -10 fps).

My absolute BEST group @ 50 yards measured .112 inches and consisted of a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet with a muzzle velocity that averaged 2647 fps in front of 41.1 grains of IMR4895 sparked by a standard large rifle Winchester primer in Winchester cases. This load had a maximum velocity deviation of just 13 fps (+6 fps / -7 fps). I didn�t try shooting this group at 100 yards, but I�m sure it would yield an excellent group at that range.

All groups were fired using the original 3x-9x by 40mm Bushnell variable scope set on 9x at both 50 and 100 yards.



MAY 28, 2003 � TEST OF HODGDON�S VARGET RIFLE POWDER

I loaded Varget powder in amounts ranging from 40.4 to 42.2 grains (.2 grain over �maximum suggested load�) of Varget using 5X fired, accurized Winchester cases, Winchester standard large rifle primers and a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, boat-tailed bullets.

According to the latest (2002) Lyman Reloading Handbook I read at Olde English Gun Shop, a maximum load of 42.0 grains of Varget with a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet was chronographed by Lyman ballisticians at 2740 fps. In my tests, I could come no where near that velocity chronographing the rounds with my chronograph.

As a �control�, after I finished chronographing all the Varget loads, I fired and chronographed a 3-shot �control� group using my �back-up� hunting loads of 41.5 grains of IMR4895 w/ a 150 grain Nosler B.T. and Winchester standard large rifle primers which yielded an average muzzle velocity of 2686 fps. This MV is slightly higher than my previous average MV of 2675 fps.


The following are the average muzzle velocities attained by the amount of Varget Rifle Powder shown. This test was done on 5/28/03, temperature 70� at the rifle range at Troy Fish & Game Club.

40.4 grs. = 2514 fps average MV.
40.6 grs. = 2525 fps avg.
40.8 grs. = 2546 fps avg.
41.0 grs. = 2539 fps avg.
41.2 grs. = 2523 fps avg.
41.4 grs. = 2576 fps avg.
41.6 grs. = 2590 fps avg.
41.8 grs. = 2606 fps avg.
42.0 grs. = 2615 fps avg. (MAXIMUM Published load)
42.2 grs. = 2621 fps avg.

Control load: 41.5 gr. IMR4895 =
2671, 2698, 2684 fps = 2686 avg. fps.




CONCLUSION: Varget Rifle Powder

Varget is not particularly more accurate than any other powder I�ve tried in my Savage Model 99EG Rifle and it was a complete disappointment in that it was unable to attain the muzzle velocity (2740 fps-24� barrel) published in the 2002 Lyman Reloading Handbook with the published maximum load (42.0 grains), reaching only an average muzzle velocity of 2615 fps� well below the 2740 fps indicated in the 2002 Lyman Reloading Handbook.

After thorough tests of primers and different amounts of different rifle powders, I have concluded that a load of 41.5 grains (max. book load) of IMR4895 behind a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, boat-tailed bullet, using a Winchester standard large rifle primer and �accurized� Winchester cartridge cases is the best all-around hunting load for my Savage Model 99EG Rifle. It�s accuracy combined with it�s muzzle velocity assures more than enough knock-down power within reasonable ranges.

I set up the rifle�s scope (3x-9x Bushnell with built-in Bullet Drop Compensator) to be �dead on� at 100 yards when the scope�s Bullet Drop Compensator is set for 100 yards. This setting is also valid for a maximum hunting/shooting range of 250 yards with the scope set on a 200 yard �zero�. At this setting, the height of the bullet never deviates above or below 3� inches from the line-of-sight.


NOVEMBER 2, 2007

Loaded and check-fired loads using 40.0 grains of IMR3031 purchased in 2002 with a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip sparked by standard Winchester large rifle primers for this year�s hunting loads. Muzzle velocity estimated at 2627 fps due to cold temperatures.
Ballistics are as follows:
29 yards = 0
50 yards = + .8
100 yards= +1.8
150 yards= +1.2
184 yards= 0
200 yards= - .9
230 yards= -3.0 (Point blank range)
250 yards= -4.8
275 yards= -7.4
300 yards= -10.5