Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Lets talk down

750 vs. 800. Will the user see any real performance difference? Anyone have any experience with any of the new dry down options?

The 800 will be slightly lighter and pack slightly smaller. No dry-down experience yet as I'm waiting for WM and FF to get done with their evaluations of it. JRB has made it an option for their quilts, and so has Z-Packs.

There's no real performance difference between 550, 650, 750 or 850 fill down. What you get at the upper end of filling power is the ability to do the same as lower fill down with less weight and bulk.

So, if a bag that's rated to 20*F with 550 down weigh's 2 lbs 8oz's, the exact same bag, rated at the same 20*F, with 850 down will usually weigh sub 2 lbs.

Higher lofting down is reputed to retain its loft longer, extending the life of the bag, but I've never seen that to be true, though I don't necessarily doubt it.

I have no experience with the "dry down" stuff, maybe someone else does.

I would say "dry down" has yet to be field tested enough to get some real valid evaluations. I just picked up an after Xmas sale item from Eddie Bauer. Its their Micro Therm Storm Repel Jacket, with DWR(durable water repellent) Polish 700 filled down. I believe this jacket weighs less than a pound. Here is a link to it.
http://www.eddiebauer.com/catalog/product

I'm wondering if the new dry down will eliminate synthetic bags for backcountry use. Will be interesting to see how these products develop in the future.

I doubt it.

The maintanence and cleaning issues with Down will not go away and neither will the constant battle to source high quality down. As a matter of fact, that will only continue to get worse.

Synthetic perfomance will continue to improve in the future as well.

Synthetic will always be less expensive.

Kevin T you always seem to have a good perspective on some of this stuff. So what bag (s) are you using and if you do not mind telling why. If you already covered this else were just let me know and I will read your thoughts there. Hope this will not take away from the op's threadThanks

Curious too if the veteran guys keep a synthetic bag around for wet weather? Several times this year I've been faced with the same weather we have outside. It's currently mid-40s and raining like hell. By morning it's supposed to be single digits or below with wind chill. Rain and warm doesn't bother me and neither does just straight cold, but keep running into days where everything gets soaked followed by cold and that scares me a little. Ideas?

I could write a long time on this subject. I'll try to be brief.

- High quality down always is warmer per weight, and compresses better. It's also more expensive to purchase and construct. A well constructed bag should always have better longevity as well.
- The best synthetics are comparable to 600 ish down but will win on being more water resilient.

Dry down, really the jury is out on It should work, but high end companies like Western Mountaineering did not embrace it immediately. My suspicion is it will probably be fine. This , we all pretty much know.

As far as what is right for an individual, there are a ton of factors such as sizing, the climate and the usage patterns of the user. Some people simply prefer a certain style for whatever reason.

Myself, for my usage and climate, I had sort of come to the down quilt plus a lightly insulated synthetic bivy as the "ideal". The bivy , differs a bit from an overbag, and overcomes some of the weaknesses of a bivy (condensation build up from the inside). However, over the last few months, I went looking for another solution, thinking maybe just a really good bag would be a better fit for me. I end up camping in the 20's a lot more than the 40's. So, I tested a lot of combinations on various trips. I slept in a quilt only at 18 degrees , a 5 degree bag in single digits, 2 quilts combined near 0 F, and the list goes on. I think I have come back to the insulated bivy idea, but with just a few slight changes that make it a bit more user friendly and less fussy. I think this works well for me , because it is still lightweight (a sleep system capable of near 0F will be somewhere in the 2.5 lb range). It is highly adaptable and resilient for a variety of conditions. I can add more multi function to the underneath layer (quilt of whatever can be more of a poncho if need be etc). So why not just a lightweight overbag ? Well, I like the idea of a full enclosure, and in fact really like the mesh of a lightweight bivy in real cold temps. It makes a noticeable difference on how "cold" you face feels by slowing down air loss. This has the side effect of making your feet and hands warm up as well (or at least it did for me one night). The "bivy" ness of it, also works well for use standalone in desert climates, etc, plus it protects my sleep gear. So in theory, at least and in my usage, this combo works well from about 50 F to 0 F. It can adapt to almost all my uses and is not terribly heavy.

If I were to go the bag route, I'd go high end down, probably a dri down the high end companies were using it and see how it goes. If I had to buy today I'd buy a WM bag and call it good. I'd get one comfortably large in the shoulder areas.

Sorry for the long winded ness.

Kevin

I'm looking hard at this one:

http://www.zpacks.com/quilts.shtml

It is a quilt that's a bag, sort of. Wear their hood, or as I plan use a JRB Down Hood velcroed to a down vest, and place the bags zipper on the bottom. On warmer nights, just use it as a quilt, OR just use it as a center zip bag. MUCHO versatile, it appears.

Zpacks quilt looks a lot like the Enlightened Equipment Enigma with new full zipper option. I'm thinking if I was starting over I'd but a 800fill drydown 20 degree Enigma. I'm happy enough with my current quilts though I don't plan to spend the money.

Thanks, I looked at that EE. Seems to me that horizontal baffles like the Z-Packs quilts would work better as that would allow you to shake the down either towards or away from the zipper, as needed.