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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
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At least you're straight up honest with no twists and turns. I get it...even if I don't fully understand it.
What if it was your brother? Your sister?
Gunner...if it takes years to develop that bond worthy of being called friendship, how does one erase it nano-seconds after a "hey I suck dick" awkward enlightenment?
Bro and Sis would be shunned, and as for turning off the switch on friends.........I'm not completely normal, it wouldn't be hard.  Gunner "Normal" is a cycle on a washing machine. Your response to Bob's question will also serve as mine. Some folks never learn to say "goodbye". In fact, the Dr. who was addressing his colleagues in his parting address as President of the American Psychiatrists Ass'n said "Our mental institutions are filled with people who never learned to say "goodbye". Using that as criteria, you and I may be the only sane ones in this bunch!  Human beings are incapable of unconditional love. Even a mother's love is instinctual and the only instinct that can over ride the instinct for self preservation. A little [presently] five year old girl taught me more about LOVE than all my other lessons combined. Desi came into my life when she was 11 years old....... I married her mother. She married and a few years later, Punkin was born. The wife and I kept her for the first year of her life since both her parents worked. She introduced me to "unselfish love". I realized that the love I have for my biological children and grandchildren is tainted by pride, in the case of my grandchildren since they carry some of my genes, and responsibility in the case of my children. I can just truly love Punkin for herself with no demands, hopes, or expectations on my part. As a lawyer, Bob should know that no man can predict his actions with certainty in a hypothetical situation, but based on my history and inclinations, any of y'all who are queer can just invite yourself right out of my life.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Good question Bob.
I reckon it depends on how toxic they are to everyone else. I would have to say yes. Love is conditional.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
I loved my mother for bringing me into the world but I lost all love for her as an individual.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Love is an opportunity that can be lost.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,250 |
I have been studying on this a spell, so my question is not all love conditional? There were some "conditions" that made you love them in the first place that likely varies from person to person, so there is probably some "condition" that will make you stop loving that person. Again what that condition is will likely vary from person. If there were not conditions to loving a person, then you would love everybody. miles I think that you are using several different definitions in your idea of 'conditions'.
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Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
Good question Bob.
I reckon it depends on how toxic they are to everyone else. I would have to say yes. Love is conditional. =========== I think I'd have to agree with that. I wish I would have included the description of "toxicity" 3 pages ago. For me though, I don't know if I'd consider a child's choice as to who they love as toxic,should it not comport with how I feel it should be. This thread has been an interesting learning experience.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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These 'what if' threads are funny.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,131 Likes: 4 |
I think that you are using several different definitions in your idea of 'conditions'. Yes, but doesn't the very idea of 'conditions' make it a variable? miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Remember Bob, you only need to do what you feel/think is right concerning family and friends. After all, that is what true selfishness is about....
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
Human beings are incapable of unconditional love. Even a mother's love is instinctual and the only instinct that can over ride the instinct for self preservation.
A little [presently] five year old girl taught me more about LOVE than all my other lessons combined.
Desi came into my life when she was 11 years old....... I married her mother.
She married and a few years later, Punkin was born. The wife and I kept her for the first year of her life since both her parents worked. She introduced me to "unselfish love".
======
I get that. But, were she to come to you tomorrow with the proclamation of such a life change, do you change your reply?
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,084 |
Playing off another thread, I was curious as to the opinions of the membership as to this question:
If your son or daughter told you they were gay and in love with someone of the same sex, would that somehow change the love you have for that child?
If your best friend said the same thing to you, would the friendship change?
IMO, true love and true friendship can not be impacted by such a dynamic. For those who believe it can, please help me to understand how that irreparable void occurs. No No Can True Love Be Conditional Yes
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
For me though, I don't know if I'd consider a child's choice as to who they love as toxic,should it not comport with how I feel it should be.
I reckon that depends if Liberace's gonna be swimmin' in the creek with me.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
With you or Liberace's dad?
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
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I had a friend, a good one, that expected me to cover for his extra marital work.
Didn't happen, and now, whether angry or embarrassed, he doesn't correspond with me.
I had a problem with his actions, and he knew it, but it didn't become an issue until he expected me to be complicit.
That's where I draw the line.
I'll try to maintain any relationship under status quo until such time as I am asked to forego my personal ethics.
Family, friend, or bum on the street.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Maybe you can get some better answers here Bob. http://www.gayoutdoors.org/cfforum/index.cfm
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
I never heard of that till now,Pat.
If it's a forum you founded, I can't love you as a friend any longer.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,825 Likes: 3 |
No way an honest person could say their kid turning out a homo would not have an effect on them. It just goes so hard against the grain, smacks down any thought of grand kids, and makes you think where you went wrong.
Not saying the kid should be kicked out of a parent's heart or home, but it's unrealistic to say there would be no effect. This is truth. When my son "came out" it caused everyone of those reactions and then some. It has had an effect on our family and there is still some internal turmoil every time I see him with his partner because it goes against everything I believe in. I won't support his lifestyle, but if he is sick or hurt or wants to share some joy in his life, I am there. Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
I could cop out by pointing out that she is only five and I'm seventy two, so that scenario is highly unlikely.
But, I won't. [keeping in mind what I said about answers to hypothetical questions]
The question becomes, could I devastate this child by condemning her?
No.
Much of what she knows of love, as an adult, will be because of her relationship with me as a child.
Am I willing to answer to the God that made me for introducing negativity into something I see as a gift from Him?
No.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
ED...forum responses are easy until it's all right in front of your face, aren't they?
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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