Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing 1)Douglas rifle barrels.. Do we like them ? 2 Cut vs. Button

Yep, he's Good <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HBB

Yes I know about the Golden Bear State---spend a lot of time out there on business. Tough to decide but if you held me to it-----San Diego out towards Scripps Ranch. Prices are nuts but may be stabilizing a bit now. If I had unlimited funding--------I would have a house on the hill side above the PCH in Laguna and a BIG ASSED Boat (dual Cats desalination etc) in Newport Beach. Almost moved out there 10 years ago but with what I like to do it would not be possible given land prices and the politics that exist. I guess the B comment was pretty ugly and I will apologize for it as the hammer sounds painful�you are not so upset that you are going to need therapy are you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />? I was out there almost 2 months ago in LA---best frigging restaurant I have ever eaten at period was---Patina!! I go to Burlingame some as well---- great food and wines you cannot even get here but a little flakey for me.

Nope you would not have to twist my arm real hard to move to Cali but then I would not be able to hunt and shoot any weekend I wanted.

nice, zebra, nice.
the specific detail about the type of hammer really painted a picture ...

gotta like a man who paints the whole picture of self torture. should be one of the gang fast round here

Justin,
I chamber through the headstock. I simply don't trust a steady rest but I suppose there are those rests that are spring loaded that work. Mine are the ones that came with the lathe that have bronze tips. As the barrel turns in them the wear that takes place always lets some slack get in the setup and that means the barrel can flop around to some degree and the chamber gets bigger at the back. Can't stand it.

I know you've heard people say that they had a Wilson seater that their cases would stick when they seated a bullet. I'd be willing to bet those were fired in a chamber that was cut in a steady rest. I have never chambered a rifle where the cases would stick in a Wilson seater......never. From what I read I think most benchrest gunsmiths chamber in the headstock.

You must recognize that gunsmiths are a 'quirky' bunch and are loathe to change their ways. I'm not much different because I finally found a method that works for me with minimum 'fuss' and simply don't see any reason to change. No lemming blood in my veins.........much. I've bought a ton of 'gadgets' when shooting benchrest simply because a good shooter was using it and I figgered that he had settled on what he considered the best and I just let him try things out for me. That was smart of me, wasn't it? I only spent fortyleven hundred dollars outsmarting them guys.

Mickey,
Thank you for the response. What you said makes total sense to me. I just chambered my first barrel a couple of weeks ago(thunderous applause erupts), and used the chuck/steady/tailstock method, as I have a big lathe and the barrel was for an XP-100. My steady has the brass pads also, but I stayed on that steady like a bum on a balogna sandwich throughout the fitting/chambering process. I had done enough prior experimenting with old barrels to know that if you don't, you'll start hearing "clack-clack-clack"...which would be mildy disconcerting when one is trying to do precision fit/chamber job. I must have done it right/got lucky as my Interapid tenth indicator showed about a tenth runout in the chamber when it was all said and done. I then immediately began engineering a roller bearing retrofit for my steady. However, I will probably sell my current lathe and purchase something smaller, which would allow through the headstock chambering. Both chambering methods might turn out equaly accurate rifles, but the through the headstock method, to me, appears to be the way to go. It is rigid, and one does not have to worry about the variables of the steady rest and tailstock. Plus, it is basically single set up machining...which if one wants dead nuts, that is the way to go, IMHO.

Thanks,
Justin

Justin,
In chambering a barrel for an XP there's just no way around using a steady rest. I'll use one when forced but that's the only time and I stay on top of it just as you did.

Grizzly makes a 12x36 belt drive lathe with a 1 7/16 spindle bore that I would love to own. It's about $2100 and I'd bet it will do a good job. You really don't need a SpaceShuttle Special in a lathe to do quality work.

I've been on the road for a few days and see this thread has some interesting twists to it.

I've some time, so I am gonna reveal my thoughts/experiences in and around Douglas. Not trying in any way or shape or form to bring people around to my way of thinking. Not that we would ever be for doing that on this forum eh!?

I respect all thoughts on this thread, well most all should I say...(grins) and of course appreciate the same with mine.

So, to the point:

I've been around my fair share of tubes over the years, and have worn out/shot out more than my fair share. I've worked with a lot of different ones, and like some out there have to come to opinion via my experiences.

I've come to really like Schneider, Lija, Krieger, Shilen, Hart and Chanlin.

I've heard tons of good on this forum of PN and my old Mashburn is gonna make a trip there this Dec for a new tube.

My personal thoughts on what makes a great tube is this.

I want a tube that will break in quickly and clean up well and shoot well right from the get go.
I want a tube to be able to have a good life and during the life to be able to come clean quickly and to shoot accurately and to my personal standards. And lastly I want a tube that is gonna end well.

I do not look for advice from those out there that have not had the time in behind the trigger to wear out tubes.

And, quite honestly I really only want to talk with and hear opinions from those that have done this with multiple tubes and from multiple makers. If people have not worn multiples of them out and from multiple makers then I personally feel that they should sit back and listen. Just my thoughts.

Note I did not say those have lots of rifles tubed up I personally want to hear from those that are wearing them out. Heck I know tons of folk with lots of ponies in the corral. That aint tough to find in this world. I care to hear from those that have road them from start to finish.

I am more than sort of amazed at supporters of this and or that tube when they say "look at this group and see how mine shoots"...who cares!

Now as for my personal experience (this does not count the ones that others have owned, and I've more than one friend that has a Douglas in the corner), I've had 4 Douglas tubes.

One was a 416 Taylor which found a very good home well b4 I could give it a serious go. And it was one of the best chuck rifles I ever road.

The others were a 25/06 and two 7 Mashburn Supers.

All 3 of them went pretty much like this.

Broke in a bit rough and never truly got around to cleaning up in a manner in which I was personally comfy with.

None of the 3 shot worth a hoot until I had somewhere close to 150 rounds thru them.

All 3 of them shot quite well until I neared the 1K mark. Although none of them really ever cleaned up the way I liked during this period, and have come to expect from other tube makers.

All 3 of them puked and died b4 I hit the 1K round mark.

Now it could be I just had the 3 worst tubes that Douglas ever put out and it was just a bad deal. But I just don't believe this is the case. But....I could be wrong. I think I've been wrong b4..

I did call the people at Douglas and tried to have a nice and professional conversation with them. Now keep in mind that to them I am a nobody, this is to say that I don't do business with them on a fairly continual basis as a smith would and or could.

I started the conversation off in a very nice and inquisitive manner, and the fella came out of the corner right off on the fight just like we would if we were in the Octogon.

I told him how all 3 tubes had whimpered very easily and was curious as to what he thought about it.

He said in a pretty rough and non professional manner, "hey I've burned out STW tubes in 75 rounds or less so shut up!".

Personally I found him to be a world class butt and if he had been in the same room as me I would of been sorely tempted to revert to my days of youth and bitch slapped him silly!

Ah but age has given me some good things I guess so I shut up and decided not to ever deal with them again and to do my part to steer others in a different way.

Some say, don't let your friends drive drunk, I don't let my friends drive Douglas!

This is just the way I look at tubes, to those of you driving them and liking them I say more power to you.

I've been to the ball game with them and have had 3 strikes plus our little conversation so I want no part of them anymo.

Life for me is too short to shoot/carry a tube that I don't care for.

Not trying to change anyone over to my way of thinking, it is your cheddar and you spend it how you wish.

Shoot straight, and make it your best day!

Mark D

Mark my experience varys from your in that I have only owned one Douglas an air guaged XX and it shoots in the .3's.The only barrel that I have had a less than positive results with was a Krieger match grade hand lapped 270 barrel,but I have other Krieger barrels that were great and I still consider Krieger a top barrel maker

Mark, I couldnt have said it in a more clear manner.

I guess my interpretation of a custom built gun is different than a lot of Douglas shooters here. I think basically, "custom" means a gun with an aftermarket barrel. So you are paying for the barrel, and the rest of the price is the smith's labor to chamber, true action and install. Your smith is going to charge you the same amount to install a Douglas as he will to install a Lilja etc. So why not buy the best barrel?

Who makes Hart's barrels? I have heard that Douglas Makes Hart barrels and that Hart hand lapps. What's the scoop

That's not accurate. Hart makes their own barrels. There have been instances when Hart had an order for a barrel they didn't make and they would get one from Douglas but that doesn't happen very often. I was told this by a person at Douglas.

Thanks

I may have said something like that once? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

While Dan's tubes are smoother,I cain't quantify that they "outshoot" Douglas...................

Yeah, the Savage barrel on my 30-06 feels like 60 grit, and is a copper fouling monster, yet it shoots sub MOA. That being said, I still wouldn't opt for a Savage barrel on a custom rig, LOL.

IMHO,Douglas and Lilja are largely birds of a feather and that isn't condemnation...................

But so are a Chevette and a Corvette,lol.
The thing I cant get over with this issue is the miniscule price differance between the differant makes. Why not buy the best? Why have to settle for a barrel that fouls? Why not have the piece of mind that the barrel your buying is going to clean easy and shoot well the first time?

I've learned a few things over time and my preferences now are based solely on my firsthand accounting.

I certainly wouldn't rank either Douglas or Lilja as "the best",despite the disparity in their pricing.

PacNor remains my favorite,I think highly of Hart,Shilen seems sorta hit and miss and I'd like to try a few more Rock tubes.........................