Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Combination Guns and Drillings Will Non-Lead Ammo Requirements Keep You from Using Your Combo?

Finding an alternative for the rifle bullets is now impossible, given the state of that technology, and I can't see any investments into development of bullets that won't damage the thin barrels. There aren't enough of us to make it profitable.

There are costly but effective shotgun shells for Classic doubles, but finding a pill for the little barrel is going to be a problem.

Uncle is moving that direction, not just libturd States.

I've pondered this very thing, Bruce, and not totally convinced that all is lost. Quite frankly, I think a lot of the "mono bullets, damaging doubles, combos" is a bunch of crap. I've fired Barnes Banded Solids in my 9.3x74R drilling with no ill effects thus far. I look at it this way, when the bullet enters the rifling, it gets swaged down to size immediately, otherwise the barrel would burst. Once its squeezed down to size, it's done. JMO. Seems to me that any of the monos with relief grooves in them, should work just fine. I damn sure won't give up my drillings, if lead bullets become a thing of the past. Should make for lively discussion.

It would be nice to have a duplicate of a drilling/combo barrel, fitted with strain gauges every inch or two. Fire a series of cup and cores for control, and then with monos(at the same chamber pressure), and see if the mythical "traveling bulge" really exists?

Jeff

There is a guy in UT that makes sabot for high power cartridges but as of yet no 7mm. a 6mm or 25cal mono-bullet in a sabot might work for my 7x57R.

Have also considered paper patching sub caliber bullets. i.e. .264" in a 7x65R, .358" in a 9.3x74R, etc...

Jeff

The .308 barrrel in my Savage/Valmet 2400 shoots Barnes bullets fine. Haven't had a chance to shoot them in the .222 version yet, but will this 'spring" (is it really Spring when you have NO Winter?).

I've spent a good bit of time reading up on double rifles over the last few years. Those of us that shoot drillings and combos are shooting cheap guns and are small potatoes in the market place, compared with those double shooters. They are a tough bunch and spend money that most of us can't. Good news is that they are developing monometal bullets that are giving lower bore pressures and stresses than the original cup and core designs like Woodleigh makes. These designs are much changed from only a few years ago. Most of the bullet only rides the bore and only the bands are engraved. I am pretty convinced that in a few years we will be comfortable with them in our guns as well. If those guys are convinced that they won't destroy their old English guns with thin soft barrels that are worth twenty or thirty thousand dollars, I think we will be OK with our over engineered German guns made with Fluss stahl.
I think bullets like CEB's, North Fork's and maybe even Barnes newer bullets are pretty close to what we need.
Bfly

North Fork specifically says don't shoot their bullets in the Chapuis UGEX models, and they have far thicker barrel walls than any of my drillings or cape guns.

Valmets are a different story, however, in all but the 9,3mm and 375 Win versions.

I'm wondering whether casting bullets from bismuth might be an answer??

Sorry, you are right Bruce. The Northfork bonded bullets are not recommended for doubles. I was thinking of the newer cup point bullets and the solids. They are the ones with the bore riding design. The older bonded bullets have a long bearing surface on the base and it's made more like the old Trophy Bonded Bear Claw or Nosler solid base bullets, with a big chunk of solid metal that fills the grooves.
Bfly

"I'm wondering whether casting bullets from bismuth might be an answer?? confused"

Bruce,

Someone would have to come up with a Bismuth alloy of some sort, as from what Ive seen of recovered Bismuth pellets from waterfowl, while soft, it's not particularly malleable. Looks to be brittle, for lack of a better term. At least in it's pellet form. Don't know if it's pure, or already alloyed with other metals?

Jeff

When Bob Peterson owned Bismuth, they experimented with a bismuth-core bullet with a conventional gilding metal jacket, which qualified as non-toxic. I shot a few designed for varmints and while they weren't accurate enough for prairie dogs they certainly would have been for big game. Of course it would be difficult to make them outselves, but they might be a future solution.

One of the concerns I'd have about banded/grooved monolithics is the variable bore diameters in older guns.

I believe that I have enough bullets and brass to shoot my combination gun for the rest of my life.


Stan in SC

I bet you don't have 190gr .318 mono-metals enough if lead is banned by the feds. Also, try to find .364 194gr mono-metals.

Good point. And you're right,I don't.

Stan in SC

Well, it's been a long winter and more to come. Just can't resist. Way back when we were kids, just shortly after the dinosaurs disappeared, there was a masked man. As I recall he used silver bullets. With the rising costs of bismuth, it may soon be an alternative. Silver is down to nearly $20 an ounce, if the site I looked at on the internet was correct.

On a more serious note, a couple questions. Would bismuth tin alloy cast bullet be close enough in diameter to use our existing molds? I've seen a few complaints that bismuth shot has had fracture problems. I don't know if they are true or not. I have no experience with them. Would that be an issue? Would we need to ad more tin to get such an alloy to flow properly to fill out the mold completely.
Bfly

My "impression" is that bismuth shot is formed by mechanical compression of particles, not dropped thru a "nozzle" in a molten state as lead alloy shot is (was?).

Anybody know the answers to the questions my (vague) statement poses: 1) is bismuth shot made by swaging or another compression process?, and 2) do they still make lead alloy shot with a "shot tower"?

And while I'm exhibiting my ignorance, how do they form steel shot?

http://gscustom.co.za/

There is others.

Concept of the bullet body having just under land diameter and driving bands at field diameter.

Works.

They still make lead shot with a shot tower. I pass by this place many times every week.

http://west-coast-shot-inc.mound-house.nv.amfibi.com/us/c/331070-west-coast-shot-inc