Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Do many here use MILS?

And you need to go fight a fire!!

I do when I'm working, but right now I'm too busy hitting targets using MILS Thank you for proving my point and have a great day.

Good stuff. Love this part. Thanks for taking the time for the post.

How often do you see a guy plunk down at the range and shoot a sub-MOA ten shot group, particularly with a factory rifle in a larger than varmint cartridge?

I get a kick out of this in the classifieds "10 rounds fired. Half inch rifle".

Yes, exactly.

The point is that MILS do not require the shooter to refer to target ranges in meters as many new shooters mistakenly believe. MILS can be used with yards just as well.

The lineal measurements and units are irrelevant when talking in terms of angles

The same goes for MOA, people just associate inches with MOA, but it doesn't have to be so.

When long range hunting it is the first shot that matters, not the whole 10 shot group . Gunny Sargent Hathcocks rifle in Vietnam was a 2 MOA rifle that he did amazing things with because it is shot number one that is important. .

Yes, Jeff Cooper said, "A rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots".

How do you know the one sample you pull from a statistical distribution will go where you want?

They're talking about the only shot of the group that matters in hunting; the Cold Bore

You should sight in for your cold bore shot

Yes, good barrels should have the cold bore in the group. Still, making daily trips to the range and firing a single round at a paper target will tell you lots about your rifle and load

I understand about the Cold Bore Shot.

Question: You have a real 2 MOA rifle, and a real 1/2 MOA rifle. Day after day, which one is more likely to place the CBS dead nuts center?

Yes.



I really wish I had more time to address more of your points and will make an effort this weekend if possible but feel this need to be addressed. Sorry for the drive by post.

My .264 Win Mag at my standard density (as I stated in my post) works off a 9 MPH windbracket when using MILs. If you had actually compared your 7 MPH wind bracket with my posted MOA holds you would have seen your mistake.

I can�t help but smile at the irony (a rare instance where that really applies) that I understand MIL windbrackets better than you, yet I choose MOAs.

I find it amusing that some seem to think, even after my explanation of the difference in Military MIL approximations (6400 divisions in a circle) and actual real Milradians, that somehow I just don�t understand MILs.

I get and can use MILs, better than most in the thread. I prefer MOA because it works better, faster and simpler in a hunting optic.

Here are few field pictures of my use of MIL/MIL optics in the field in the past few months. I tend to use and test most everything to keep up on current options.

Feral Pigeon at 370 yds. Leupold MK6 3-18X44 with Horus TREMOR.


Coyote at 370yds Leupold MK6 3-18X44 with TMR Reticle.



Feel free to hang a picture of you using a MOA reticle/ MOA adjustment optic in the field. My suspicions are you have never actually used an MOA/MOA optic.

Cold bore BS needs to die.


How does the gun know what number shot it's on?



Where in this group is shot #1?




How about this one?




This one?




Or this one?





That is every round fired in that gun from load work up with 155's. Coincidentally the shot that is out on the last target was the first round ever fired from that barrel...



How about another gun?




?







"cold bore/first shot is all that matters" nonsense is said by people who's guns don't shoot as well as they think that it should, so they come up with excuses for every "miss". Put the rifle in a mechanical rest and fire one shot a day for ten days on the same target and you don't get a bullet diameter sized hole. You get a group..... One that looks remarkably like if would've just fired 10 rounds to begin with.


I'm not interested in stroking myself about how I have a ".5 MOA all day long (if I'm feeling good, and the rifle is emotionally ok, and the sun is just right, and I do my part) rifle, and instead care about what size target I can mechanically hit with every round fired. Guess what!? If your rifle is a .5 MOA or 1 MOA, etc gun then on demand that gun will put every single round into a .5 MOA or 1 MOA target. Not some rounds over here and the next group over there.... But every round into that dot.

Even some 2 MOA rifles will shoot their CBS in the same place every time and that's what jwp is talking about. It's when they go to shooting groups that they open to 2 MOA.

Exactly.....before an elk hunt several years ago I set up a 12 inch circle gong at 600 yards and fired 1 shot 3 days latter I fired 1 shot 4 days later I fired 1 shot. I then drove to the target a I had 3 cold bore shots in 2 inches. I knew all that I needed to know to go hunting and that is that my CBS would be on the money. Remember that there is no defined aim point on a gong.

Wow. You don't grasp at straws much, do you?

I used SAC for the calc on the 264WM. Didn't and don't care about comparing anything. Sweet so wind brackets work just like the 1/2 distance MOA thing?


I killed more in a single week with this Nightforce 2.5-10x32 HS .25/MOAR than most will kill in a decade.



Do tell about all those FFP scopes and spotters available in MOA...?

Looking forward to your review of my post...

Then something is wrong with the gun. What happens when you need to fire a second shot? Or a third?

If your cold bore goes where it's supposed to, there's no need for 2nd and 3rd shots.

Have you never tested a rifle/load combo as I've described?

Give me a 1.5 MOA rifle that puts it's CBS to the same point of aim every time over a 1 MOA rifle that puts that first shot "somewhere" in the group.

Mil/Mil works fine, but I would sure as hell rather have everything on a MOA/MOA system. As they become more available, it's just an easier way to go.