Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers a question- why a 45/70 and not a 50/110?

I was doing some reading and came across an advertisement for a gunsmith that specialized in model 71 and 1886 wins and restoring them and/or modifying them to 45/70, 45/90 and 50/110s. I was just curious as to why the 50/110 fell off as the premier big bore lever. With a case capacity bigger then the 458 win mag and the 71 wins ability to take 40.000 cup. why isn't this modification more popular? and what makes the 45/70 a better big game cartridge then the 50/110? Or are the lever gun manufacturers missing the boat.

Just a guess but some people like to keep their shoulders attached! :-) I know my Sharps 45-70 will full loads has a noticeable whomp when it goes off. Can not imagine a 50-110. TM

The Winchester rifles also had a faster twist because they were all "Express". In the terms of those days it meant a lighter bullet. The heavy slugs associated with 50 caliber cartridge guns back in them days were 473 Grains for a paper patch and slightly heavier for a groove bullet. The lever actions wouldn't cycle those bullets due to OAL. The 45-70 has a much better range of weight to caliber ratio in lever guns and rifling pitch to stabilize them.

Thanks for the replies, as for the recoil TM you are probably right the recoil would be lively to maiming. But the 1861 and 71 are heavier then the model 94s or the 336 marlin. More weight would help with the felt recoil. As for the paper patch bullets this is a problem, but it should not be a length of bullet problem. The 405 win is 5/16 of an longer the 50-110=2.75 the 405=3.18 I know they are not the same rifle, but win did design and make actions long enough. maybe not wide enough but long enough to handle a 50-110 with a 400 or 450 grain bullet. I was wondering if the lever gun community has become with the 45/70 like the the 30/06 in a bolt action rifle community. Or has the long life of the 45/70 been because it was used in military rifles and bullet and rifle manufacturers had large sums of money and time tied up in tooling and could make 45/70s for cheap. And we in the lever community have been working with what we can get ever since. just some thought.

im thinking the 45-70 is pushing the limit of tolerable recoil for the majority in an average lever gun just like the 30-06 is about max for the majority in the average production bolt gun. not enough insentive to chamber a nice handy lever gun in something that recoils alot more

Winchester never sold that many 50's.
Goin back, the '76 was chambered in the 50-95-the 86 was chambered in the 50-100, 50-105, 50-110.
A number of folks requested Winchester to chamber the big 50 again, but instead of listenin, they went belly up. Go figure.
45-70 was always the most popular, probably cuz it was a military round.
Can't imagine anyone out there willin to convert any 71s anymore. The last ones I saw listed command a price thet would feed my family for a month or more.
If youre really into the big 50s you dont have to sit an fret. Assuming your shoulder can take the hits, load data is available.
Good luck n good shootin.

There are a few guys still converting the 71's. Its still possible to get your hands on a browning or Winchester '71 or '86 repro for conversion or possibly a bastidized origional. Neither action has difficulty with the length. Recoil shouldn't be much more than the 45-70 with some of the new super HO rounds like Garrtet and Buffalo Bore. Either way the 50-110 is a completely custom deal and a hand load proposition so that's most likely where the lack of popularity comes from. Historicly the 86 in 50-110 would have been very expensive and guns at that time were tools. 45-70 ammo like 44-40 could be easily found. It was not the most practical caliber for general hunting.

Theres always been a group of folks who won't feel comfortable unless they have a bore as big as a sewer pipe. The 50s have always had adherents, they just are small in number.
Truth is, that the ol 1/2 inch is just too much for most folks n most situations. Even in black, the muzzle blast from 100grs is impressive.
That aside, those who use the 50s consider their performance to be awesome. If you ever see a towering bull Moose drop like a house of cards in a windstorm, guess it'd be hard not to agree.
Like all specialized calibres, the 50 serves its purpose-its just a narrow one.
Good luck n good shootin

thanks guys. Mak you are probably right about the recoil. You don't hear of many MOA groups shot with 458wins and 505 gibs. And like those would take a great deal of practice and dicipline to shoot one of these well. The 50/110 would be a specialized tool to a big game hunter. Over here in North America we only have a couple species that may require a stopping rifle. And how big is the market for a lever action stopping rifle ,like the 50/110 stoked to upper 30s to 40s cup would deliver. For some reason I never put the 500 Alaskan and the 50/110 with the same case. The 500 AL case just being a little shorter. Thanks 340. I have been In the Wild West site several times. But I have never went to Starline to look for brass for there 500 AL conversions. Back to my point .The more I read and learn I find it irritating that Win had better ideas 80 years ago then they do now. With a little modern metallurgy and some computer design refinements. Win could of had something that would have blown the 450 marlin out of the water. I can't believe there wouldn't be a market for hunters wanting a match pair of 71s. One is 348 the other in 50/110. The idea of being able to grab 2 rifles, hop on a plane and hunt almost anything that walks. I still think someone in marketing missed the boat.

Ain't that the truth...



Ditto above sentiments... about +1000...



There are just very few HUNTERS wanting a matched pair of 71s... unfortunately... which is why that great rifle went by the wayside...



No, the didn't. They made those already... just in bolt actions... they are called pre-64 M70s in .30-06 (or .300 H&H) and .375H&H.

Levers are just a bit more specialized, for almost all of us, than that. As it should be, but again why the 71 idea didn't fly as well as we'd have wished...

Boy isn't that the truth. A man could still cover just about all the hunting this world has to offer with 2 good rifles. For me both would be Model 70 SS Classics. One in 300 Winchester and the other in 416 Remington, or a three-seven-five H&H.

I like levers, but if limited to just a few rifles, my primary hunting rifles would be bolt guns. A 50-110 is a very specialized rig.

Winchester sure couldve become the S&W of leverguns again, but they already went down that road before. For those of us who can't imagine a long arm if it dont have a lever, Win made a lot of mistakes, but we hafta remember that FN was the parent company, an what do a bunch of Belgians know about leverguns/levergunners-?
Well, they know jack squat, thats what.
Bolt gun folks just don't an cant understand this fascination with levers.
It sure woulda been wonderful for Winchester to come out with the 500 Win Mag.
Situated as things are, it'll just be left to those folks who have lots of cash, a good gunsmith, an a lot of desire.
Good luck n good shootin