Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 460 Rowland Conversion XDm

I ordered a 460 Rowland Conversion barrel for my XDm (shipped the next day!).

Of course factory ammo is near impossible to find, so I am jumping right into hand loads.

This is a ported barrel for the 4.5 in version of the XDm. I plan to start with the factory spring at 18# and see how it goes, perhaps it will need the 24#?

What are some good starting loads?

I have the following powders on hand:
Unique
2400
Longshot

I have 230 gr. RN bullets.

Next question: Has anyone tried to trim 45 Win Mag brass to 460? 45WM: 1.198 460R: 0.957

I see that a conversion could also be made from 308...again anyone try and succeed with this?

Thanks...looking forward to experimenting.

I haven't started reloading for my Rowland yet, been using ammo from Buffalo Bore, and Georgia Arms. Probably get some new Starline Brass when I do reload for it, as my Springfield Mil Spec leaves what I assume is an extractor dent on some, but not all cases. With full power loads out of a 4.5 barrel, it will be an "eye-opener"! Pretty stout from a 5" 1911 (Clark) comped barrel, and VERY loud.

I'm trying Buffalo Bore 185gr JHP's at 1350 fps, 230gr JHP at 1350 fps, and 255gr Hard Cast at 1300 fps - also the 230gr JHP from Georgia Arms at 1300 fps. So far, accuracy has been good with all of these loads, and for what I expect to use the .460 Rowland for (hog hunting), I expect them all to do well. In an article on the .460 Rowland, John Taffin says that AA#7 is the best powder choice. I have seen loads with other powders, and may try Power pistol, Unique, or maybe Universal. I like H110 for full power .44 mags, but do not know if it would work in the Rowland. Bullets need to be of strong construction, many meant for the .45ACP will not work. I am hoping to get more used to the pistol with the factory ammo, then start working up hand loads. The Buffalo Bore stuff has been easy to get from Clarks Custom Guns - also Georgia Arms ammo, and Midway has run the Buffalo Bore .460 ammo on clearance a few times.

By the way, I'm using the 24# spring, Clark recommends to start with that one, go down to 20# , maybe. 18# might come back pretty brisk?

The REAL GUNS website lists load data for the .460 Rowland with Power Pistol, AA#7, Long Shot, and True Blue powders using bullets from Remington, Speer, and Hornady (XTP) in weights from 185 to 260gr. Max case length is given as .960", max COL as 1.275". Data was from a Kimber 1911 with a Clark barrel, Federal 150 primers.

I'm still looking for loads with Unique and Universal, but will probably load some rounds using Power Pistol soon.

Thanks for the replies. I am feeling like we are exploring a new frontier, even though this round has been out for a while.

It is very impractical to mail order ammo where I live, so I either have to win the lottery to find any at the shops or make my own. After reading one of your posts regarding bullet construction, I took a look at the 230 RN's that I have. They are .452 and have a speed limit (just made that up?) of 1250 fps. So, perhaps these aren't the best choice? I'll look into the others that you posted.

Since the following for the .460 is not large. Midway USA usually has brass for it. It won't show up by searching Brass. Type 460 Rowland in the search box.

Of the three powders you list. Longshot is by far the best. There are others that work.

Is it a Clark conversion?

1) Do not load max at first.

2) Heed the warning about bullet setback. Most important.

There is a lot more to loading for this cartridge. Learn all you can before you do it.

EFrench-

Search here on the fire for "460 Rowland project"

It will save some time.

The Rowland, like the .45ACP, uses bullets of .451". .452 is usually for .45LC. What Gibby said about loading with caution and bullet setback. Clark recommends that if a round is chambered, it should be fired, or discarded, because of possible bullet setback and high pressure. I think I am going to like the Rowland VERY much, and I think you will, also. It seems to have a lot of potential for those who need (or want!) that much power in a semi-auto handgun.

You will love the 460 for outdoor carry. There is no other way you can put that much power downrange in a "controllable" fashion. Easy to carry. XTP's for light bodied game. Hard cast for heavier bodied game. The 460 will turn XTP's inside out. They are built for the 45 ACP, but work great. 250gr .451 XTP's hold up well if you can fine them.

The main thing, like Mike said, load conservative. Back e'r down about 100-150 fps from the MAX loads. You and the gun will like it better. That is where the Wison Combat loads are at. Use new brass for the hot stuff. Used brass for the target loads. Longshot powder is linier on the pressure increase. Power Pistol works good for the reduced stuff. AA#7 is good if it is the new variation with new data. Stay away from Bluedot. It spikes when you least expect it, it works better in larger volume cases. 2400 works better in larger volume case than the 460 also. The Hodgdon's website has reel good info on loads. This is not a cartridge for beginners who "want the most" out of their loads. There is a couple of fellows here on the fire that have not chimed in yet that can help you also. Good Luck! That two "chambered" compensator is amazing!

I have experience in the 460 for the 1911 only. I wish I could help you more with the XDm setup. There are some tricks to help the gun's longevity. You can be the knowledgeable one on the XDm 460 after awhile. Take your time with this one.

Your advice to back down 100 tom150 fps is sound. Of course 150 fps less is 45 super territory. The 230 in the Rowland at 1300 fps backed down 150 fps is 1150. I am shooting 1130 fps in my 45 super. The bullets hold up better and penetrate better Also easier on the pistol without the need for a compensator.

jwp475-

I knew you would show up with the SUPER thing again! On the first page no less. We need to go shoot together!

Love ya!


P.S. 1450fps-150fps= 1300fps. All at 15-18kpsi at barrel/slide release. Plus full control and quicker follow up than 45+P loads. Looks cool too.

The load data that here does not show more than 1332 or so. And that is the ball park of the Buffalo Bore loads as well as others


http://www.realguns.com/loads/460Rowland.htm


Your peak pressure at 1450 fps is well above the 38,000 psi for the cartridge and is not a load that I want to be standing near when fired. Metal attitude gives no warning before it lets go.



38,000 psi is above the recommended pressure for the 45 Colt in a Ruger only recommended loads and not something that I want in a semi auto. You are living on the ragged edge with a 1450 fps load, enough 38,000 psi is more than I am willing to stand behind in a semi auto recoil activated lock up system. That pressure would not concern me in the auto mag.

From Hogdon's loading guide



Cartridge: 460 Rowland
Load Type: Pistol
Starting Loads
Maximum Loads

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
185 GR. HDY JSWC Hodgdon Longshot .451" 1.240" 12.0 1413 34,700 CUP 13.5 1503 38,800 CUP
200 GR. SPR JHP Hodgdon Longshot .451" 1.225" 12.0 1372 34,300 CUP 13.8 1456 39,400 CUP
230 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Longshot .451" 1.270" 10.0 1207 32,200 CUP 12.0 1336 39,200 CUP

The Real Guns site does show loads up to and over 1500 fps with 185gr bullets, 1400 fps with 200gr, 1300 with 230gr, near 1200 with 260gr. Buffalo Bore claims 1300 with a 255 gr Hard Cast - and they are know for loading "stout". Personally, although I have fired the BB 255gr rounds in my pistol with no problems, when I "roll my own" I plan to back off some. With the Clark comp, as has been said before, recoil is not that bad - but the muzzle blast is ferocious.

Remember also that the .460 is chambered in some revolvers and at least one carbine.

The BB hard cast loads are not overestimate the 38,000 psi level. Hard cast has lees bore friction than a jacketed and can be pushed faster at equall pressure


The SAAMI pressure for the 44 mag is lower than the 44 mag

jwp475-

You are correct. I miss quoted the max fps for the 230 Jacketed.

My load I settled on is 10.6gr of longshot. About 1256 fps avg. in my gun. Roughly 34 to 35k psi. The comp lowers the pressures below 20k psi before barrel/slide release. That is the function of this well designed comp.

I do not approach 38k psi in my guns. But just for argument sake. A fully forged frame/slide on the 1911 can handle 38k easily. It has been tested far beyond that. 34k to 35k is personal limit in my guns. Of course all this is extrapolation. using Hodgdon's figures and other research by me. Look at the load development for the 9x23 WIN (46,000). I know .355 vs .451 and head thrust.

Bottom line I load conservative. But it is still a bad a$$ 1911 that has unbelievable recovery rate of fire. Look at the link to u tube on Clark custom's website. The girl shooting rapid fire at 41 Magnum power levels. Then go out and shoot one yourself. Bring your credit card and smart phone. because you will want to buy a conversion kit before you get back to the truck.

ONE MORE TIME> The 460 Roland was developed by some of the best hand gunners because there are too many drawbacks to the 45 SUPER! Do the research. I am tired.

If you want an easy to carry gun with 41 mag (4" bbl) power that can shoot 8 rounds with quick reload of another 7, then this is the gun. Look at the video.

This is the gun I carry on the farm with all those wild hogs.(Hard cast)

We have been through this argument before. Now nit pick on something I left out on this post. We can do 20 more pages if you want too. Like I said -I am tired.

Remember, I told you before. READ EVERY WORD.

The Super is not the best because you have one. I use the 460 because I did my research. AND I had a SUPER. Been there done that. No thanks.

I am afraid that I have to disagree. To think that I haven't done my home work is naive at best. There is absolutely no draw back to the 45 Super 28,000 psi is not a draw back. You are wise to load to in the 1200 fps range. The SAAMI MAAP pressure for the 44 mag has been dropped from near 40,000 psi to 36,000 psi for reason. I never said anything about it being the best because I have one, you made that condescending claim.

Your making me dizzy!

WOW!

Hmmm. The original post was a question about loading for .460 Rowland in a specific pistol. .45 Super is undoubtedly a fine cartridge, but it was not the subject of THIS post, nor was the .44 mag. Gibby seems excited about the Rowland for the same reasons I am, lets keep it at that? And try to answer the man's questions?

I am enjoying the debate and learning. I received some 45 Win Mag brass and trimmed it to 460 specs. I loaded some 230 Jacketed RN starting at 10.0 of longshot and increased in .1 gr increments to 10.4 at this point. I'll try those at the range and see how things shake out. I still have the 18# factory spring on board, but ordered a 20# and 22# to tune if necessary. I should be able to get to the range with this on Thursday (hopefully).

I also bought a box of Buffalo Bore 255 Hard Cast, but I am leery to light them off with the factory spring until the lighter loads prove worthy. I'll post the results when I can.

Thanks for the posts (even the debate!). I have been reloading for many years, but still have much to learn.