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Originally Posted by Scott F
Originally Posted by HugAJackass
I grew up living in Upstate New York. From the Watertown area on the Tug Hill Plateau, in the thick of the Adirondacks, to the Capital District Area in Gloversville, to the Southerntier in Delhi, to the Rochester Area in Lima/Avon.

I know winter. I am very experienced in winter driving. I took my drivers license test in a foot of snow in the middle of April.

I now live in Alabama.

I find it funny when my friends half a nation away think they know better than everyone here. They like to say that we should have KNOWN that all hell was going to break loose because the National News said that hell was coming.

Here is a newsflash. Here in Alabama, we tend to be staunch right leaning people that have learned to ignore the National News. We tend to focus more on what the local news is saying.

The public DID NOT KNOW anything other than the fact that it was supposed to get cold. Local news talked about cold, they did not talk about ice, expect on bridges, or snow.

We don't have the equipment, nor the materials, nor the ability to distribute the materials to treat the roads like I'm familiar with up north. No salt, no trucks with the ability to distribute the salt. No sand or the ability to distribute it. No embers nor the ability to distribute the embers. Hell, we don't even usually have 4 season or snow tires available for our cars.

Hell, is snows here about once a decade so it's an absolute waste to put the money into that equipment and material. Instead, we're smart enough to know that we don't have that available to us here, so instead, we close up shop and stay off the roads.

Crossfireoops was right. the management of this was a catastrophe. There were conflicting weather reports as to what was going to happen. So, they screwed up by assuming that it was not going to have precipitation, but instead was only going to be cold.

All that set the stage for a perfect nightmare. Nothing was closed, so people went to work, and kids went to school. They drove in the cold, and on the ice, and did okay, not great, but okay. As well as could be expected from people that only see snow or ice maybe once a decade and lack the tires, or road treatment to help.

While at their schools, and at their jobs, the precipitation began to accumulate, catching everyone off guard. The word went out that things were getting bad, so schools let out, and jobs sent people home....... all at the exact same time!

Grid lock happened. That would have happened the same way on a perfectly hot summer day if everyone tried to get on the road at the same time.

With the gridlock came the ice. Hills are everywhere, and as somebody pointed out, physics still works. Cars standing perfectly still, would slide into another car, or off the road.

Have that happen at several intersections across a city, and then the gridlock grows. and the weather begins to take it's toll. Cars run out of class. batteries that are not bought with cold cranking amps quit, etc.

Now you have a scenario where nobody can move, kids can't get home, or even off the bus that was stuck in gridlock while returning home, parents can't get home, emergency workers are stuck in traffic on the way to rescue or save a life.


And this is what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant yankee's want to mock.....

Classy folks....classy.


I do not believe I am guilty of mocking. If I am it was not my intent.


No, Scott, I've never seen you mock anybody going through a rough time. I'd figure that others like yourself would know that they are exempt from that last line. smile


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Excellent opening post, sadly the "nation of wimps" runs far deeper than weather.

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Originally Posted by HugAJackass

No, Scott, I've never seen you mock anybody going through a rough time. I'd figure that others like yourself would know that they are exempt from that last line. smile


Just making sure we were still OK. smile


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It was an ignorant opening post.

For starters, everything he suggested isn't possible.

Chains? Really? Here's some news, they're illegal on the roads here. Why? It only snows about once a decade, and no more than a few inches.

Snow tires, or all season tires? Again, not even stocked in the stores, why would they be?

It was pure ignorance.


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Originally Posted by 700LH
sadly the "nation of wimps" runs far deeper than weather.


That is sadly so true and it has nothing to do with what part of the country you live.

Last edited by Scott F; 01/31/14.

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Originally Posted by Scott F
Originally Posted by HugAJackass

No, Scott, I've never seen you mock anybody going through a rough time. I'd figure that others like yourself would know that they are exempt from that last line. smile


Just making sure we were still OK. smile


Always my friend, always.


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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
I've got nothing but respect for you either man.

It's okay not to see eye to eye with a bud. I consider EH76 to be one of my favorite people on here and yet I think he's a little out of line in his assessment of what happened here.

Here's the thing. You saw the weather reports in South Dakota. Dude, I don't ignore the weather reports in South Dakota, I just never see them. Why would I!?

We see what's reported locally. What occurred was not what was predicted here. You'd have to be here and watch the local news, or listen to the local radio to get it.

I completely agree that it was underestimated, but I submit that that was due to local reporting, not due to people just blowing it off.

Trust me, nobody fears winter like southerners. If they had even the slightest implication that this was going to be what it was, people would still be peaking out from behind their curtains! grin

It's really hard for people that have only experienced real winter weather once a decade to "have a plan". They just don't know what to prepare for, nor do they have the stuff stocked on the shelves to do that with. It's completely a foreign concept and for good reason.

What failed here is that the one's that should have known, the local emergency crews, law enforcement (elected officials), and the media should have had a plan in the books long in advance, on how to handle such an event.

They didn't, and it caused major problems.


Who you calling a Yankeeee you transplanted Yankee? laugh you are all easterners as far as I am concerned! grin So we don't see eye to eye and you think I am out of line. I don't so we are even wink

Just be happy you didn't get a 3 foot deep snow on top of a 1/2" of ice on Oct 5.... colorado knows what I am talking about and we didn't even make the news laugh


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Originally Posted by Colorado1135
HAJ, I like you, but I think we're not seeing eye to eye.
now as you said and a few others previously, you had warnings but ignored them. granted you had your reasons, but this talk of "we never saw it coming" I don't buy it. I saw the weather reports here in south dakota, they told the south and east to brace yourselves for snow and cold headed your way. I get a strong impression from the news and on here that lots of people underestimated the storm from the average joe all the way to the governors. THATS what we're talking about. ma nature will rear her ugly head from time to time. we get storms like ya'll had often enough, hell we got 3" the other day and no one I talked to even mentioned the fact in passing. when you hear "bad weather is headed your way, it's a good idea to keep an eye on the sky and have a plan. that goes for tropical storms or blizzards.


What everyone from other parts of the country "piling on" can't seem to grasp is...
Yes, yes, YES, indeed the weather reports said we were going to get snow across the southeast. In my area, the forecast was that it was most assuredly going south and east of us(like what was said in Atlanta) At 8:00 in the morning, I dropped my little girl off at school. At that time the local radio station had a spokesman from the National Weather Service Office on the phone who was saying "only light flurries expected in our area, heavier snow passing to the south and east." One hour later it started snowing. Two hours later school was let out at 11:00. At 12:00 a school bus loaded with kids was rolled over.
We repeatedly get "chance of snow" in the forecast. Sometimes they cancel school over those forecasts and catch hell for doing so when the snow doesn't show up.
Of course the southeast had snow and ice predicted. But depending on where you were, the "local" forecast was saying "yea" or "nay" for that immediate area and THAT'S what screwed everybody up!


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Originally Posted by Scott F
Originally Posted by 700LH
sadly the "nation of wimps" runs far deeper than weather.


That is sadly so true and it has nothing to do with what part of the country you live.


I am always dismayed that so many people seem to think that where a person lives defines them as a person. I don't understand the seeming need to denigrate people who live in a different part of the country than oneself. It also seems that the people who are the most vocal about putting down those who live in another part of the country are the same ones whose backs get up the highest whenever their area is disparaged. It would be interesting to see where the greatest percentage of "area insults" have come from at the 'fire.


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Originally Posted by eh76


Who you calling a Yankeeee you transplanted Yankee? laugh you are all easterners as far as I am concerned! grin So we don't see eye to eye and you think I am out of line. I don't so we are even wink

Just be happy you didn't get a 3 foot deep snow on top of a 1/2" of ice on Oct 5.... colorado knows what I am talking about and we didn't even make the news laugh


Watch it buddy! I was born in Little Falls, NY, he and I might be kin. wink


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Yeah, I was born in the Northeast, but escaped as soon as I could! grin

Glad you didn't take my post personally, bud. smile

I've seen 3 foot of snow on top of 1/2" of ice more than once in my time. In the area's I've lived, that wouldn't make the news either, but then again, the people living there have everything they need to address it right handy.

NY has been laid flat with ice storms and lake effect snow left and right. Like I said, I've lived in it.

What you and I had immediately available just isn't available here.

I'm sure you've seen your share of winter storms do a lot more local damage than any one expected as well. This is really no different.


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Originally Posted by 1minute
We don't have it tough at all here in eastern Oregon at 4,500 ft compared to many others here, but I've found it near comedy watching the news the last couple of days.

Two and 1/2 to 3 inches of snow in Atlanta, Ga and the place is paralyzed for 2 days. We wouldn't even break out the plows for 2 1/2 inches. The real travesty is that half the population is blaming the government for not warning them and/or failing to clear thousands of miles of streets and highways within an hour or so. I live on the other side of this nation, and even I knew it was coming. Don't they have phones, radios, or TV's there?

We can do 2 1/2 feet overnight, the buses run in the AM, kids get to school, and everyone goes to work. If there happens to be an away basketball game in the nearest town (70 miles one way), the team loads up and goes. Since the fall of 1982, they have canceled school exactly once in this community.

Over my life I've seen snow in Texas, Florida, and southern California. PREP FOR IT PEOPLE. Buy a shovel and some chains for your rig and practice installing/using both. With half of the new rigs being all wheel drive, there's not really that much need for chains in the first place. I get by 99.9% of the time with just good quality radials.

We have 5 rigs in our driveway, three have two sets of chains aboard, and the remaining two 1 set. In all of the years here (n=32), I've chained up once and that was at 7,500 ft in Wyoming on an elk hunt. Exercise a little common sense, and one can drive on packed snow and ice from Nov through Feb without incident.

IDIOTS!


What would your homies be doing if you got a 6" rain in an afternoon? We get that as often as you get snow.


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Originally Posted by Scott F
Watch it buddy! I was born in Little Falls, NY, he and I might be kin. wink


laugh I know Little Falls. It's not too far from Gloversville!

I was born in Watertown but lived in Adams Center at the time. So, I'm sure we don't share the same DNA. grin


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Originally Posted by 5sdad

I am always dismayed that so many people seem to think that where a person lives defines them as a person. I don't understand the seeming need to denigrate people who live in a different part of the country than oneself. It also seems that the people who are the most vocal about putting down those who live in another part of the country are the same ones whose backs get up the highest whenever their area is disparaged. It would be interesting to see where the greatest percentage of "area insults" have come from at the 'fire.


Now here is a post I can agree with 100%! I have been in all fifty states and have lived twelve from NY were I was born to FL, across the Midwest from OH to MO, then to HI, back east to MD, VA, RI, MA, and FL then west to OR and now WA. They all had good points and bad. I have met face to face good men form a bunch of states and would never bash them for where they choose to live.

I guess that's because I do not consider myself a Washingtonian or any other stats name, I am an American and am damned proud of it.


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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by Scott F
Watch it buddy! I was born in Little Falls, NY, he and I might be kin. wink


laugh I know Little Falls. It's not too far from Gloversville!

I was born in Watertown but lived in Adams Center at the time. So, I'm sure we don't share the same DNA. grin


Probably better for you that you don't. wink My father was a chemist for Beachnut in Canajoharie but the nearest hospital was in Little Falls.


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The pickup bed was empty before it started snowing and blowing and this stuff was packed in tight....

[Linked Image]

We got to dig out after 2 days in the trailers..2 years prior it was a 90� hunt. Heck 2 the Monday before this happened it was near 80�! This started on a Thursday afternoon with freezing rain which froze into about a 1/2" of ice on the highway back to then snowed and ended on a Saturday morning. The snow was driven with 50 mph winds. We holed up with plenty of food, propane, water and libations and rode it out. This one was predicted that Thursday morning. We broke down the outdoor kitchen and packed it back to town. Only reason we went back out was to try to get my friend's son his first antelope buck. It came in with a vengeance and we just sat tight.

[Linked Image]

trees broke like twigs you could hear them all night...

[Linked Image]

the day before the storm rolled in...

[Linked Image]

Just a dang storm is all... smile


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Scott:

It's like people dissing others for going to different high schools, following different NFL teams, etc.

Kid stuff you never grow out of. No big deal, really.

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10 am
[Linked Image]

7pm
[Linked Image]

2 days later
[Linked Image]

the only difference is no one said much about it outside of daily conversation. it was way worse than anyone had predicted. 25,000 cattle died in western SD alone. spearfish SD got over 48" of snow overnight. we didn't point fingers and complained. folks just hunkered down where they were and waited til it cleared and started cleaning up.

I think a big problem with your storm is the majority of southerners who just flipped out and piss and moaned about it so much. the sky didn't fall, just some hard water. yes it sucked, but it's what each individual does after that counts. you're all still here, so that's good. years down the road you can share your experiences with younger folks who won't remember it.

bottom line is it's all this damned global warming! LOL.

in all seriousness, you guys had a storm that was underestimated, kinda like we did. we heard it was gonna be bad, we just didn't know HOW bad til the aftermath. life goes on, what I would do now is make a list of everything you wish you had done to prep, so next time you'll know how to prepare, or you'll be able to have it on hand already. we keep a pantry/cellar with canned food we rotate out as need be. a few 20 lb propane tanks and 10 gallons of freshwater. it's not a lot, but it sure helps it go by better!


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Went on a special cow hunt up on MT Hood one year. Made a camp in a nice spot and started hunting. Next evening I looked up and said I thought it looked like and smelled like snow. Now I was the new guy, only been in Oregon about 18 months. One of the old hands that was born in Oregon told me why it could not snow.

Two and a half foot outside the tent door before it got light outside. We hunted hard in the heavy forest with it snowing all day. Was one of the most wonderful and memorable hunts in my life.

Like you we waited it out and drove home two days later.

Funny thing about that special hunt. Ninety cow tags sold wit an expected 100% fill rate. There were that many elk there... well they were there before the hunt. Not one tag was filled. Never did find out where the elk went. Fish and game was up flying around and could not find then either. It was still a great hunt.


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I've seen that more than once myself.

Blizzard of 77 dumped 156" of Lake Effect snow in just a few days.

Ice Storm of 98 leveled almost every tree North of the Thru-way.

Those are just some examples...

I've seen it go the opposite way as well. Ice covered roads, buried under a few feet of snow over night, and 60* by 10am....



Me, and my family had no problems with this weather. Wife lived in Alaska, I lived in NY. We know winter when we see it, and we have the only thing we need here.....a broom. laugh


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