Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Sako, the facts.

Evenin',

I would like to get the opinions and facts all down here on the Sako. I have read and listened and still don't know exactly what happened when. Seems like there are contradictory versions about.

Stuff like:
Garcia happened in 1972?
A Finnbear is?
Etc..

Thanks,

Cube,

Garcia Happened in 1972? Yes, they became the importer, up until about 1978, when Stoeger became the importer.

A Finnbear is? The Sako long action like in:
L61R
AIII
AV
691, et al

Fits, 270, 30-06, 7mm mag, 300 winny, 375 H&H, et al

Go to: http://groups.msn.com/SakoCollectorsClub/_whatsnew.msnw

Bob

So the Finnbear is not a specific model?

thanks,

Cube,

Sorry I should have been more specific.

The were three original models (sizes) of Sako bolt action Rifles, each on their own action size:

Vixen (short 222, 223 et al) L46, L461, L469 action
Forester (medium 22-250, 243, 308 et al) L57, L579 action
Finnbear (long 270, 30-06, 7mm rem mag 300 win mag, 338 win mag, 375 H&H et al) L61R action

Thus the Finnbear was the long action or magnum action. This long action Finnbear was made in at least 4 variations that I am aware of:

Standard
Deluxe
Super Deluxe
Mannlicher


When Stoeger took over they mostly dropped these names and restyled the actions, and called them:

AI for short action
AII for medium action
AIII for long action

After a few years they restyled the tang on the AIII action and renamed it AV.

How that?

Bob

There was also an AIV long action with deep magazine for the Safari model in .375, .338 and I think .300 Win Mag. I had a .375 rebarreled to .300 H&H. Held five in the box in either the original .375 or .300 H&H. Plus one in the chamber.

You forgot the finnwolf lever actions....243, .284, .308, and .358 Win. Also there was one original modern action the L46 (1946). The Olympic shooters used these for years....mostly 222's. Then The L57 (1957) came out in 243 and 308. The L57 was changed to L579 in 1959 to correct some internal problems with the bolt/trigger/safety. Then the Long action L62R came out in 1962....'06, 270 etc. They added the 264, 300 win mag, 7mag etc along the way. Garcia took over in 1972 and kept the line albiet cheapened up....no more 3 lug bolts etc. They did build a L61R super for a year or so but it was discontinued cause it was too expensive. Stoeger changed the models to AI II and III but kept the Finnbear, Forester and Vixen names. After 1982 or so I am out of touch. There it is...everything you wanted to know about the early Sakos and boreingly <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> more. Regards, Rick.

Bob,

Thank you for the explanation on the Sakos (uh...Sockos... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) I have been meaning to ask the question about the difference between the A-III and the A-V. So you are saying the only difference is the tang?

I have an A-III Classic in .270 Win. I also have an A-V Mannlicher full stock. (Not a carbine) But with a 20" bbl in .375 H&H. Now the Blue Book of Gun Values states this gun hasn't been made since 1972. If that is correct and Stoeger renamed them in '78, then something here doesn't add up. I'm a bit confused is all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

G.H.

So; my L57 243 was made previous to 1959? It's almost as old as me! thanks for the info guys.

Cube,

The Blue book section on Sako's is broken up into two sections. Discontinued models and recent production.

There are mannlichers in both sections. So the L61R model mannlicher shows they were discontinued in 1972, the AIII, AV, and 691 models are listed under current production models, even though they have also been discontinued! Confused yet?

The difference between the AIII and AV is the length of the tang. Both the L61R and the AIII are called short tang models, The AV has a longer tang. Why did Sako make that change? BTSOOM....Beats the sheet out of me!

I did not mention the finnwolf levers because it is not a bolt action. I did leave off the AIV safari model bolt with drop mag because so few are seen and it's the only Sako model action I have not owned.

I was trying for a quick answer to your question, so I cut corners, that other readers are taking me to task on.

Which is why I pointed you to the Sako collectors Club BB. Much more info there, than in my short posts.

BTW my 1983 Classic AIII, in .308 (not listed in the Blue Book as available in that caliber), neither the box nor the rifle mentions the model as Forester, so that supports my assesment that Sako/Stoeger dropped the Vixen, Forester, and Finnbear names sometime in the early 80's.

I also had a pair of AV's in calibers 7x64 and 9.3x62 (therefore made later than my aII), that had "Finnbear" on the box label. These were made for the European market, so those pesky Finns, apparently still used that name, depending on where they marketed the rifles.

The more you learn, the less you think you know.

Good luck with your fine rifles.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for the detailed explantion. I do apprecieate it! BTW: I would kill or die for a Sako in 7x64.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Am seriously considering rebarreling a .270... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Grasshopper

My favorate action is the Sako L61R.I have an Sako finnbear chambered for 338 Win and a 7 stw built on a L61R plus another action with the magnum boltface waiting to become something if i can ever decide on a cal.

Can I add a little - some will be a repeat just for continuity sake. Most of this should be correct - but with Sakos and the way production was handled, nothing is absolute.

1946, introduction of the L46 action, small calibers like the .222. Also know as Riihimaki Sakos. Firearms International is the importer.

1957, introduction of the L57 action, are designated Foresters for medium action length. Mostly .243's and .308's. L46's are now known as Vixens. Firearms international is the importer.

1959, as Rick pointed out, change of the L46 and the L57 to the improved L461 and L579 actions.

1961, development of the L61R long action for the 30.06 class of cartridges and magnum calibers. Is known as the Finnbear. The L61R has a 3rd locking lug on the bolt at this time. Bolt shrouds on all three action sizes are open, integral machined recoil lug, checkering around the bolt knob, deep bluing and a short tang on the action. Many, but not all of these 60's manufactured guns are marked as Bofors Steel on the barrel. FI is still the importer.

1972, Garcia Corp. takes over and impliments cost cutting measures across the board. Bluing, wood, finish, and 3rd locking lug on the L61R's is gone. Overall quality of the line suffers. Somewhere, perhaps around 1975 or '76, the actions go from having an open bolt shround to a closed bolt shroud. In addition to the guns already mentioned, there are heavy barreled versions of all the actions with beavertail stocks.

In 1978-1982, actions are redesignated A1(Vixen), AII (Forester), and AIII (Finnbear). Stoeger is now the imported, and quality of the rifles improves greatly.

In 1983, the AIII is dropped for the redesigned AV. The only apparent difference between the AIII and the early AV's is the longer tang length on the AV's. AIII's will fit in an AV stock, but obviously there is a large gap at the tang end. Early AV's still have the squarish type stocks, checkered bolt handles, etc., of the earlier AIII's and L61R's. My guess is about 1985, but the AV's were redesigned with the newer hunter style stock which is more rounded with a palm-swell. The bolt handle has a new angle and shape, and the checkering on the handle is gone. AIV's are also introduced during this period, and they are used exclusively on the Safari grade rifles - heavy calibers for dangerous and other large game.

1991, the S491 (vixen), M591 (forester), and L691 (Finnbear) are introduced. For a lot of folks, myself included, these were a step in the wrong direction, mainly due to cost cutting efforts. The sidewalls on the action are straight resulting in less machining costs, the action no longer has an integrated, fully machined recoil lug (the bottom of the action is machined flat and a separate slip-on recoil lug is provided), and the #4 trigger assembly used on the AV's is replaced with a Tikka type trigger. Production ends in 1996.

1997, Introduction of the 75 model (75th anniversary of the company). Stoeger is still importer for Sako.

2000, Beretta takes over Sako and importation.

2006, sometime soon? Introduction of the 85, a controlled round feed version of the 75.

Live Oak :

I have an AI Actioned SAKO Hunter chambered in .17 Rem Serial No. 814xxx. The next highest AI Serial No. that I have seen was 187xxx, which I believe was made in 1989 or later (2 piece floor plate, 6mmPPC chambering). Any idea what the jump in Serial No.s signified? I know that the S491 Action Serial No.s started above 800 000, and the finish on the 814xxx Action is very similar to the S491 Action, but the dimensions and design are all AI. Thanks.

rollinghills

One thing you bring up that I forgot to mention was the cost-cutting on the floorplate assembly - Sakos up to the early AV's (and smaller action variants) had one peice machined floorplates. Later AV's, L691's and 75's have a two piece floorplate/trigger guard held together by a couple of screws.

Rollinghills, unfortunately I am not up to speed on the later serial number ranges - if you ask the question to Daveg 7mm-08 on the Sako Collectors Club he might be able to tell you.

Oops....I said L62R which should have been L61R. The Pre Garcia and 78-82 rifles intrigue me. The Bofors steel mark ended in 1968 because of a patent infringement. However the Sakos made from 1968 until the takeover by Garcia were still the same quality. In fact, the "Bofors Steel" deal was just a marketing ploy anyway.....all the steel came from the same place. Bofors referred to the 40mm Bofors AA cannons made in Sweden and copied by the allies in WWII. That being said, the holy grail of all Sakos are still the ones marked Bofors Steel on the barrels. Now, the 78-82 rifles may be the looked over hidden gems. Stoeger, in an effort to bring Sako back to respectibility, made these fine firearms for only 4 years. Some of the wood they used is sensational and the metalwork is superb. You used to be able to pick up these rifles for a song.....not anymore. They also made the last of the Sako Mannlichter carbines.....the Germans loved them. The only new Sako I own is a NIB 7MM STW that was only made for one year so I consider it a collectible. I don't have the gumption or desire to actually fire the thing because it is truly beastly. As a side bar, my son Eric has a nice early Garcia (thanks dad) that is a one hole 30'06 so don't let anyone tell you the Garcia era rifles were not accurate.....as a matter of fact, they lenghtened the freebore and you can shoot all the premium super bullets in them. I have rambled at nausium....one thing for sure....I love my Sakos! Regards, Rick. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I could be wrong but I have never seen the L46 called Vixen or the L57 called Forester in print. I have both and nowhere do those names appear on either action. Old Gun Digests do not have those name in their description.

I also have an L46 single shot in 222. This is a neat little action with a solid bottom. Interestingly they were sold only as barreled actions. The one I bought came with an MPI glass stock that someone had the bedding all messed up on.

Have any of you ever seen an L46 in Hornet or Bee? Been looking a long time and have yet to comr across one. Pete

Pete, I can't speak to the L46, but I do own an extremely rare Sako deluxe L57. It is marked Forester on the barrel but there is no pine tree in the grip cap, just a white diamond similar to what you get on a Weatherby deluxe. It looks, based on serial numbers, that less than 10,000 L57's were made in their two year run before they were redesigned as the L579.

Live Oak,

This has been a very interesting discussion! I do know that Colt marketed rifles on the L-57 action, (marked "Coltsman") But I am wondering if Browning did, as well? I think I know where there is a "Coltsman" in .243 Win.

Reason I ask, is that I have an L-57 in .308 which has been rebarreled. The barrel is marked Flaigs There are no other markings on the rifle except on the action L-57 and the serial # 76xx. The rifle has rather nice wood, Monte Carlo stock, with white-line spacers and rather squarish fore-end.

But intrestingly enough, the butt pad is marked "Browning"!

The gun is fairly accurate, but I have too many .308s. I originally intended to have it rebored to .358, but since have come up with 3 rifles in that caliber. Am now entertaing the idea of rebarreling to .25/.284 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Grasshopper

Sakorick,

Do you know if SAKO ever bulit any rifles using FN actions? I know Browning used SAKOs for their short action calibers, but did it ever work the other way around?

Guy up here has a 300 H&H on an FN action. Barrel is clearly marked as such in the typical factory roll stamping, both the caliber and SAKO.

I am wondering if it is a SAKO barrel refitted to an FN by someone, or if SAKO built the rifle. Either way, it is very well done. Stock looks like a typical Browning Safari model, but is not the high gloss bowling ball finish they came with.

Ted

I'm pretty sure it was the other way around, FN/Browning used Sako actions for a while.