Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 460 Rowland Conversion XDm

Mike-

On my last post, I had a long response to jwp475 typed out. Like I said I was tired. I deleted it.

It was about how when I was young and listened to old coots argue their points. I learned a lot from that. Same here.

jwp475 and I get in to this all the time. People do learn from our --- well, lets call it a debate.

I do like the 460 Rowland. It has it's niche. I have 32 1911's. 33 in a couple of months when my 3rd Wilson shows up. 9mm,38 Super,45ACP,10mm and 460's. Looking at the 9x23 Win now too.The 460 Rowland has it's place. It's not for every occasion though.

EFrench-

Keep in mind the case capacity difference when comparing data. Most data is with 460 cases not 45 WIN mag. Just a reminder. Use a chronograph for sure.

I have never had Buffalo Bore ammunition meet their own specs. Keep that in mind also. GOOD LUCK!

Springs. It takes experimentation like you are doing.

That is surprising about Buffalo Bore ammo in your pistols. My experience is there ammo usually exceeds claimed velocity in mine shot over an Ohler 35

I love it!

good morn'n jwp!

Morning. Just goes to show the difference in firearms.

I haven't checked all the Buffalo Bore Stuff I've shot - or Double Tap, either, but what I have checked was pretty "hot".

Enjoy a good conversation, and at least try to learn from it, also. Sometimes, though, it seems like talking to my wife. If I asked HER a question about the.460 Rowland, she'd likely give my an answer about tire life on a Toyota!

THIRTY-TWO 1911's! Gibby, you are my hero!

Thanks for the wisdom. I have been searching the world over trying to find comparative data regarding case diminsions on the 45WM and 460R. Some sources claim that hte 460R brass is thicker than 45ACP, others not. Certainly the outside diminsions are equal, except for the oal. Perhaps the web thickness is different as well to accomodate the mag primer, but even that has been debated.

When trimming, I did indeed notice that the pilot was slightly snugger than 45ACP, I haven't tried it on 460 (just found a box of BB ammo).

Can this be quantified?

Mike- The BB ammo is hot , but just not to spec. Same with DT. It does not matter. I buy very little factory ammo. Most of the factory ammo was for the 10mm. There for a while a few years back you could not find brass for the 10mm.

32 1911s. yea, when I was young, I shot rapid fire locally and then went to bulls eye shooting. I never sell any gun I buy. Had to rebuild a few. Some more than once. Been reloading since I was 14 years old.

Efrench- Try to find SAAMI Specs drawing on line for the 45 Win and 460. I wish I could give you a link but I am computer illiterate. That 45 Win probably will be thicker in all dimensions. Check Starline brass's web site out also. If my memory serves me, 45+P and 45 SUPER brass is heat treated and has a thicker base and web sections. 460 Brass the same with a different grain structure in the brass. Large pistol and Large pistol magnum primers are the same dimensionally. My suggestion EFrench is to forget about modifying the 45Win. Just keep it simple right now. Use 460 cases.

Triton Cartridge,that did all the pressure testing for the 45 Super went out of business. Hmmmmm! I think Starline brass says NEVER shoot 45 SUPER in a standard 45 auto.--That one is for you jwp45!!

Long live Johnny Rowland, Bill Wilson and Clark Custom!!!!!!!!!!

No need to post that for me I know which weapons can shoot 45 Super and which ones should not. Only about 7,000 psi difference in 45 ACP and 45 Super.


I do not believe that the Rowland is SAAMI spec'ed, I could be wrong. Not sure

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm


Handgun PSI Rifle PSI Rifle (Cont.) PSI
17 Rem - 52,000 CUP 22 Hornet - 25,000 CUP 30-30 Winchester - 42,000
22 RF Short -
21,000

222 Remington - 50,000 303 British - 49,000
22 RF Long & LR - 24,000 222 Rem Mag - 50,000 CUP 307 Win - 52,000 CUP
22WRF - 19,000 223 Remington - 55,000 300 Savage - 47,000
22WRM -
24,000

22-250 Remington - 65,000 308 Winchester - 62,000
25 Auto - 25,000 220 Swift - 54,000 CUP 32 Win Special
-

42,000
32 S&W Long - 15,000 223 WSSM - 65,000 32 Rem - 37,000 CUP
380 Auto - 21,500 243 Winchester - 60,000 32-20 - 16,000 CUP
9mm Luger - 35,000 6mm Remington - 65,000 32-40 - 30,000 CUP
9mm Luger +P - 38,500 6 mm BR-REM - 52,000 CUP 300 Rem. Short Ultra Mag - 65,000
38 S&W - 14,500 257 Roberts +P - 58,000 300 WSM - 65,000
38 Auto - 26,500 25-06 Remington - 63,000 30-06 Springfield - 60,000
38 Special - 17,000 260 Remington - 60,000 300 H & H No PSI Std.
38 Special +P - 18,500 6.5 x 55 Swede - 45,000 300 Win Magnum - 64,000
38 Super Auto +P - 36,500 6.5 x 284 - No PSI Std. 300 Weatherby Magnum - 65,000
357 Sig - 40,000 264 Win Magnum - 64,000 300 Rem. Ultra Magnum -
65,000

357 Magnum - 35,000 270 WSM - 65,000 8mm Mauser - 35,000
357 Remington Max - 40,000 270 Winchester - 65,000 8mm Rem. Magnum - 65,000
40 S&W - 35,000 7mm BR - 52,000 CUP 32 Win Special - 42,000
10mm Auto - 37,500 7 x 30 Waters - 45,000 338 Win Magnum - 64,000
41 AE - 35,000 7mm - 08 Remington - 61,000 348 Win - 40,000 CUP
41 Remington Mag - 35,000 284 Winchester - 56,000 338 Rem. Ultra Magnum - 65,000
44 Special - 15,500 7.62x39 - 45,000 338 Lapua - No PSI Std.
44 Remington Mag - 36,000 7mm Mauser - 51,000 375 H & H - 62,000
45 Auto - 21,000 7mm WSM - 65,000 38-40 Win - 14,000 CUP
45 Auto + P - 23,000 280 Remington - 60,000 38-55 Win - 30,000 CUP
45 Long Colt - 14,000 7mm Remington Mag - 61,000 375 Rem. Ultra Magnum - 65,000
45 Win Mag - 40,000 7mm Weatherby Mag - 65,000 416 Rem. Magnum - 65,000
454 Casull - 65,000 7mm STW - 65,000 444 Marlin - 42,000
480 Ruger - 48,000 7mm Rem. Ultra Mag - 65,000 45-70 Government - 28,000
50 AE - 36,000 30 Carbine - 40,000 458 Win Mag - 53,000 CUP
7.62 x 39 - 45,000 470 NE - 35,000 CUP

You need to get the full pdf of SAAMI specs. It' on my desktop, has been for a long time. It's 170 Pages long. Unlike your list it shows the 45 SUPER and 460 Rowland.

Like I said-45 SUPER been there, done that, like most that are enjoying their 460 Rowlands. That is what this thread is all about.

I am glad you are putting so much in to this though.

The point of my post is that the 45 win is 40,000 psi

WOW! Shot the first batch of handloads and then the Chrono gave up... I used the 45 Win Mag brass trimmed to 0.955, 230 gr Jacketed RN (0.451) CC! 350 primer (Large Magnum Pistol), COAL 1.250. 10.0 gr. Longshot; 1157 fps (Clark chart says 1207 for 230 gr. XTP, so I believe this).

I used the factory XDm 18# spring and a ported conversion barrel for a 4.5" (5" length). While very snappy, it wasn't uncomfortable. The brass was ejected about 25 feet.

Since the Chrono gave out, I thought I would light off a couple of the BB rounds to see how they felt... I am thinking that a stronger recoil spring is in order. I didn't notice any slide lag, so I suspect that the spring is adequate, but a beefier spring may slow the slide a bit.

Overall I am pleased with the conversion barrel. It came with a +60% mag spring which should address some of the FTF issues (I didn't experience any).

Throwing brass 25' indications high slide velocity, a heavier spring is needed IMHO.

Agreed! 20# and 22# shipped today.

I have the 22# spring in my .460 1911, works fine for me.

I have a ?.Can you shoot 45 ACP in a 460 Rowland setup?

Ak Archer,

The 460 Rowland case is slightly longer... so No as both rounds headspace off of the case mouth. But you can go back and forth (acp/45 Super) with the 45 Super as they are both the same length, as long as your 45 is set up for the super.

Jerry

Right on ..... What do I need for a 45 super, a different spring?

Here is what is stated on 460Rowland.com: "Rowland Conversion will reliably feed and fire standard .45 ACP cartridges from standard .45 ACP magazines; just like the .357 Magnum feeds and fires the .38 Special� only bigger� much bigger. "

It is not wise however because the case is held in place by the extractor. while the recoil will be a fraction of what it would be with the 460 it is still a setup for malfunctions and perhaps a broken extractor or worse...

It take about 5 minutes to switch back to your original setup to shoot the 45acp. I would go that route. 5 minutes more to switch back to the 460.

I do not know the XDm that well. In a 1911, there are some simple tricks to slow the slide velocity down and hold the round in battery longer. If your are getting 25' ejection, you are tearing your gun up. Simple as that. I would call Clark Custom.

How are your fired cases looking?

One more thing, quit shooting your chronograph. Ha! Ha!