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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 97
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 97 |
My 200 yard group was .6" with 73.0 gr and at 400 it was maybe 6". I finally realized I was chasing my tail and did the ladder.
I'll try the 3 charges when it quits snowing. I'm at .015" off the lands right now. Would you suggest moving in to the lands, off , or both?
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
My 200 yard group was .6" with 73.0 gr and at 400 it was maybe 6".
That could be from a number of things...optics power, parallax, wind...If you are shooting .6" at 200 then you are there. Run your 73gr loads over a chrono and see how much velocity spread you get.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,465
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,465 |
I'm at .015" off the lands right now. Would you suggest moving in to the lands, off , or both?
Complete the powder test using the same seating depth for all. Once you've found your charge, then you can tweak seating depth.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
IMHO, and its from years of competitive shooting, you do not want to be just at the lands ever.
Bullets can vary a bit in ogive, and there is a different pressure between an engaged, just touching and not engaged in pressures.
My rule of thumb has been either .015/.010 engaged or same amount off as a minimum.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 97
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 97 |
Thanks guys. It's going to be just a bit, got 2" of snow in the last three days.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,960
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,960 |
The key is to find the node that you have very little vertical dispersion AND very little variance in MV. IMO you must have both tightly grouped.
Most of the time it is easy to see the bullets make jumps in elevation and MV and then you get 2-4 rds that seem to cluster in both elevation and in MV. Take the middle of that node and work your seating depth tests.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,893
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,893 |
Ladders "tests" are about the dumbest [bleep] schit I've ever heard of.
Wow.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,205 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,205 Likes: 1 |
Ladders "tests" are about the dumbest [bleep] schit I've ever heard of.
Wow. +1 If you were shooting in an indoor warehouse with no ventilation system to make it OSHA approved, it still would not be worth a crap.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,958 Likes: 73
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,958 Likes: 73 |
Ladders "tests" are about the dumbest [bleep] schit I've ever heard of.
Wow. +1 If you were shooting in an indoor warehouse with no ventilation system to make it OSHA approved, it still would not be worth a crap. Hilarious!
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,974 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,974 Likes: 11 |
WapitiBob: Any parallax issues with your scope, or can one dial it out? There is no known reason for unit doing well at 200 to open up that much at 4. Check for parallax.
Last edited by 1minute; 02/28/14.
1Minute
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,958 Likes: 73
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,958 Likes: 73 |
Creedmoor Ladder... Load... Ladder... Load...
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,952 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,952 Likes: 2 |
Better put some calipers on those groups.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,958 Likes: 73
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,958 Likes: 73 |
Oh yeah.
Why run a ladder?
To develop a long range load with as little vertical stringing as possible in the fewest number of shots as possible.
To find charge weight ranges to which your rifle's barrel is tolerant and indifferent. You're looking for consecutive shots that tend to have the same POI especially with vertical as a consideration. When you have identified these accuracy "nodes", shoot groups with the loads in the node to see which one shoots the best. Tweak seating if even necessary.
A load that vertically strings at long range sucks ass
There's never been a better load development method ever invented since Man came about on earth, the earth was created, and the Universe big-banged itself.
So there.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 27
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 27 |
Hello RC,
What's the haps?
don't have a dog or a ladder in this, as I'm a short range meat hunter, but FYI.................
Have fun, but be mindful of the fact that in some instances what you know don't count near as much as what some that know it all counts fer.! There is a pecking order strictly enforced
Best,
GWB
Last edited by geedubya; 02/28/14.
A Kill Artist. When I draw, I draw blood.
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,952 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,952 Likes: 2 |
The pecking order is clear here. Your pic has accounted for a few good laughs.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,958 Likes: 73
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,958 Likes: 73 |
The look on Ol' Blacky's face is the look of experience...
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,958 Likes: 73
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,958 Likes: 73 |
Hello RC,
What's the haps?
don't have a dog or a ladder in this, as I'm a short range meat hunter, but FYI.................
Have fun, but be mindful of the fact that in some instances what you know don't count near as much as what some that know it all counts fer.! There is a pecking order strictly enforced
Best,
GWB
Howdy GDub! After reading your post, I had a case head separation...
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,584 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,584 Likes: 2 |
So, when we find the least amount of vertical dispersion, We have found the "node",
And this node tells us we have found the best pressure?
Consistent pressure,= least vertical spread? Yes?
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,928 Likes: 18
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,928 Likes: 18 |
It's from consistent position and movement behavior of the barrel at the moment the bullet leaves the barrel.
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