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Originally Posted by kcnboise
Originally Posted by WPAH
You are correct.

I did also mean the phase diagram. Also, I stated that I am not familiar with the lead diagram, and I did not feel like looking it up. Austenite is steel (correct again), and for steel that would be the temperature to heat to. Same process, different parameters.

He cannot heat it to melting temp, and must cool slow for softness throughout.




You didn't want to look it up, so instead give a wrong answer? First thing you need to learn is there are consequences in the "real world" to trying to BS your way through if you aren't certain of an answer, unlike college. Second thing is "I don't know the answer, but will figure it out and get back to you" is a perfectly acceptable answer. Third thing is if you have little knowledge and little experience and do what you're doing here you're going to get ripped a new one, or at least have the current one enlarged, by a person with more knowledge and experience.

BTW - lead/tin alloys soften for a short period of time (hours to days), then form a brittle grain structure, while lead/antimony alloys harden with heating; neither annealing like steels.


Well, since we are going to "nit-pick" on an internet forum, you are also wrong.

"lead/antimony alloys harden with heating"
No; lead/antimony hardens with time after/upon cooling due to antimony precipitants, which can occur even at room temperature, and lead/antimony softens with heating due to all of the antimony being in the lead/antimony matrix.
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.htm

Now it is you turn to admit being wrong. Watch the real world; you'll get ripped a new on or get the one you have enlarged.

I am not a kid; I was a machinist for 12 years before college, so I have seen the real world. I have not studied heat treating, phase diagrams, or TTT diagrams since Fall '12, and I have never applied the knowledge in the field. What's your excuse?

It turns out that lead and lead alloys have some unique properties and do not respond to strain hardening or heat treatments like other metals, which is probably due to lead's large atomic radius. My studies were mostly of iron, aluminum, and their alloys for these processes. I am humble and admit being wrong. You also sound like you work great in a team. Did you study Material Science? Or did you study Mechanical Engineering or just obtain some heat treating knowledge through experience?

Basically, unless the OP can soften the jacket without making a mess of the lead, he is completely wasting time with heat treatment. The lead core will respond little or zero to heat treating.

OP: The best bet is carefully altering the tip. Keep the lead out of an oven you cook food in too.

Last edited by WPAH; 02/05/14.
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Since lead hardens with age, the 20 year old projectiles that originally may have expanded at 1700 fps may now only expand above 2000?
So, my idea was to heat them to soften the alloy and hopefully bring them back to a useable state.


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RW, most factory swaged bullets use what is essentially pure lead. If you are worried about expansion, the lead is not your problem, the problem will lie with the Jacket.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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RW, lead will not continually harden with age. It will harden to a certain point, depending on the alloy content. Pure lead or pure lead/tin alloys will NOT harden with age - they will pretty much always be as hard as they are going to be. Tossing in antimony changes the properties a bit, as does any presence of arsenic when heat-treating. I would gladly trade you straight up, my soft cast FPGC boolits for your RN .308" projectiles.


Selmer

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Originally Posted by selmer
RW, lead will not continually harden with age. It will harden to a certain point, depending on the alloy content. Pure lead or pure lead/tin alloys will NOT harden with age - they will pretty much always be as hard as they are going to be. Tossing in antimony changes the properties a bit, as does any presence of arsenic when heat-treating. I would gladly trade you straight up, my soft cast FPGC boolits for your RN .308" projectiles.


And the market provides a solution....


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Say hi to the secret service agents for me lol laugh

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