Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Factory 700 vs Stiller Predator

Looking for the straight up skinny on which you would prefer for a sporter hunting rifle. Buy a 700 short action and have it trued up etc or for the same money buy a Stiller Predator and be done with it.

Also why would you choose either or. Thanks!

Trued 700 ADL SPS = $379 + tax + $150 for truing.

Where can I get a Stiller action for $550?

Or $450 to $475 if I sell the take-off trigger and stock and barrel.

ETA: I have a custom built on a Stiller TAC 30, and while I like it, I can't see the difference for the money between it and a trued 700.

What method and extent of truing did you get for $150?

Depends on what you expect to end up with in the end. IMHO, you can build a 700 action to be as accurate, reliable, feed as well, and just about any other measurable criteria as the custom actions- Stiller, Hall, etc.... with a little truing, but then you wouldn't have a Stiller, Hall, etc.... to brag about. And most custom actions don't come with a trigger, so you have the added expense of a new trigger and associated hardware- bottom metal, etc...

Considering the stock and most other aspects of the build will be equal,do you want to spend your money for a bragging rifle or spend it on a shooter and use the left over for ammo, etc.....?

Just my 2 peso's worth....

Bob

I'd troll gun shows, pawn shops, et cetera looking for a 700 in the format I wanted.

Predators pretty much start out as a trued Rem 700, the only difference is now they have a 1 pc bolt handle which IMO makes them somewhat better than a Trued 700, I have handled a couple Predators that didn't have very smooth bolt cycling, which left me unimpressed with them at the time, in the early days they seem to have more growing pains than any of the clones that were hitting the market pretty fast, Maybe time has fixed some of the issues.

If you already own a 700, take it as far as you want to go in the bluprinting process, just remember if you sell it down the road it's still pretty much a 700 and the clone will always have better resale, with Bighorn,Defiance,Surgeon,Bat and Borden you have some great choices, these days I try to go with a 1 pc bolt just for the added insurance!

The Stiller will have tighter tolerances. Can't really argue that. However, you can argue if the tighter tolerances gain you anything for a hunting rifle.

If you buy a donor action/rifle, and have it fully blueprinted (I would question whether this is needed for a hunting gun), you are looking at $250 over the cost of the action. By fully blueprinted, I mean single point cut, lapped, yada, yada. For all intents and purposes, you would likely then have a comparable action to the Stiller from a function standpoint.

Where the cost difference becomes minimal is when people start comparing the cost to get all the same features as a Stiller such as the side bolt release, and fluted bolt. With smithing costs, you are now approaching Stiller land, and after all that work you will still only have a Remmy action (with the resale value to go along with it). The Stiller will simply hold its value, while you will never recoup the smithing costs on your now trued/fluted/side bolt released Remmy.

However, one thing that you should also take into consideration, is that if you buy a complete Remmy action, you get a bottom metal, box, spring, follower and trigger. This is easily another $100 expense you should add onto the cost of a Stiller action.

I've owned half a dozen or so Stillers. I bought them through group buys though and got them at much more reasonable prices. I loved them, and once broken in they were very nice. In reality however, I could have built just as nice of a rifle from a functioning standpoint with a Remmy.

If you want a Stiller, save your pennies and get one. Otherwise, you will likely be just as well served with a trued up Remmy. If you choose not to buy a Stiller solely from a cost side of things, I can guarantee that you will question your decision some point down the road. BTDT a number of times.

I have a question: Do the Stiller and similar actions feed well from a magazine?

That is not a particularly ignorant question. I've owned two Shilen DGA rifles that were totally the product of Shilen and one Nesika Bay rifle, again totally built by Nesika. Both were magazine rifles and neither fed ammo worth a crap.

The problem, of course, was that both the Shilen DGA and the Nesika were designed to be single-shot rifles. And when hunters requested that the actions/rifles had the ability to feed from a magazine, the "fix" was not a particularly good one.

All three of these expensive rifles went down the road ... sadly and at significant monetary loss to me.

Obviously, the Remington 700 was built to feed ammo from it's magazine; that is a given. I'm simply wondering if the Stiller et. al. would be inviting the problems that come from trying to convert a target-oriented action into a big game action.

Cheers,

kd

I don't think I have ever heard of any feeding problems associated with them, there designed to feed from the magazine, although alot are set up with DM's.

Not sure about the predator, but take the TAC30 for example. You will spend a few hundred to turn an M700 into one...(prices taken from respected smith)

Action truing: $195
Double pinned lug: $65
Sako extractor: $120
8/40 base holes: $40
Side bolt release: $100
Bolt fluting: $85
Bolt knob: $85

These upgrades alone cost $690! Even if you find these upgrades done cheaper, you are still stuck with a Remington. You can get a complete Stiller for $900.

About $340 of those "upgrades" I don't want on a sporter hunting rifle.

Agreed, but you have to compare apples to oranges. It is obvious you can get an M700 cheaper, and that is why. That being said, does the Stiller make a more accurate rifle? Probably not.

I don't have to compare apples to oranges if what I want is an apple.

I would only add that if, in the 700, you want the one piece bolt that provides the tight tolerances a Stiller has, you'll be out the additional cost of a PT&G bolt and the labor (having the action bored and timed) of installing it.

If the one piece bolt doesn't concern you, you can have the 700 bolt sleeved and still have the tighter tolerances of the Stiller. Again, this is an added expense.

To me, going with the Stiller was a no-brainer.

John

To be clear, I have nothing against a Stiller per se.

No worries there. Yours and my purposes were likely slightly different. I wanted to have the most accurate rifle I could get in what I consider a tolerable weight hunting rifle. The closer tolerances provided by a custom action were something I wanted. I know they may not provide any more accuracy in anything short of a 6PPC bench rest rig, but I figured they certainly would not detract from accuracy. I could get there with a modified 700, but when I ran the numbers, the cost came to within about $50 of a Stiller. The Stiller will far surpass that in retained value. Given my goals, going with the Stiller was an easy choice. Many of the other customs would have served just as well�

John

Exactly!

All that's needed. All on a lathe, I'm guessin' (I'm not even close to being a gunsmith). Action face, bolt face, threads, rear of bolt lugs, recoil lug if needed. $250 to install a barrel. $400 to true action and install a barrel. It's a no brainer for me.

adding a PTG bolt (same thing Stiller uses) levels the playing field a bit. And if you buy right, sales and rebates, donor actions can be cheap. It just takes time and patience.

But that is what the OP is asking. M700 vs. Stiller. I pointed out the differences. A Stiller is fully loaded, an M700 is not. If you want AC, cruise control, heated leather seats...Get the Stiller. If you want to go from A to B, get the M700.