Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Christ at the Campfire Should a Christian abstain from alcohol?

Where is everyone on this? I'm not talking about drinking to the point of being drunk. I think we all know the answer to that.
Would you say that it is wrong to have a glass of wine once in a while at a meal, or to have a cold beer after working in the yard/garden? FWIW, I cannot remember the last alcoholic drink I have had it's been so long. But that's not totally due to my faith, I really just don't want to spend my hard earned money on booze. I just want to ask the question and see what y'all think.

At the very least a christian can drink wine...

Jesus drank wine. The Biblical prohibitions are against drunkeness, not against all drinking. However...
Paul says to not cause your brother to stumble. He said eating meat sacrificed to idols is ok, but if your brother thinks it's a sin, don't eat it in his presence because it would cause him to stumble. Likewise, if your brother has a drinking problem, DON'T drink in his presence. It could cause him to backslide into his problems.

Dick

"Should a Christian abstain from alcohol?"

Sure he 'should.' It is not a requirement for salvation, but consider this:

1Cor 10:29 " Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
32 Give none offence , neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many , that they may be saved."

Spoken in . . . . . . .

"Peace, Love and a Sweet Spirit." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

jz,
I think this is one of those issues that really is not an issue at all but the church makes it one. Noting that some folks, for whatever reason, could not handle alcohol and are, what is called today, recovering alcoholics, the topic can become very emotional very fast............and for good reason. Men and women who have came out of a life of hell on earth as a practicing alcoholic have no time for the stuff and carry that conviction such that it precludes discussion of the subject. I understand that and respect that, but can't share their perpective since it has not been my experience.

The Bible tells us to abstain from strong drink, so anything but wine and beer is out by my understanding of that passage. It tells certain offices of the church to also abstain from wine, so maybe they should, unless they understand it differently and I have heard a take that is different. In no interpretation are we ever allowed to become drunk on it.

I do believe that the wine Jesus made for the wedding party was fermented, since the party goers said it was the best they ever had. Give a crowd who have been drinking wine and are relative experts in the subject grape juice and see how many recognize it as such. I have heard one silly pastor claim the folks of Jesus day did not drink fermented wine. The Scripture tells us otherwise. The parable of the wine skins would make no sense without the expansion caused by fermentation. And grape growers would only be able to grow what could be drank in a few days due to spoilage without the preservation that fermentation brings. Wine and oil would hardly be a healing technique without the alcohol produced by fermentation. This list could go on but I think the point is made: those of Jesus day did drink fermented wine and I believe He did too.

But the question is should we? Sure, if you want to and can do so responsibly. Does that include beer? I'd say yes with the same caveat for responsibility. And that responsibility carries over into your influence over others. If you are with someone who you know abuses alcohol or the circumstances it can bring, you should probably not ever drink it with them because to do so would encourage them and send the wrong signals. I've told guys before I may have a beer at home but I won't go to a bar with you because it's not the image I want to convey to you or others and the bar environment is not condusive to Christian living. I've told them that if they want to drink a beer or a glass of wine with me, to come on over and I'll be glad to do so with them. Explained that way I've never been called a hypocrit............like I care! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Guess Jesus never read all that...

Remember the Passover and the last supper. It was held in the spring while the harvest was in the fall. There's no way that unfermented juice could be kept through the winter. It isn't that cold in Israel. Also note that Jesus didn't get drunk, nor did the disciples as far as we know.

I had one pastor tell me that the Greek word for wine also included raisins and they were probably eating them instead of drinking fermented wine. Now that's a stretch for even the most rabid prohibitionist. Jesus clearly differentiated between eating and drinking.

I think this is an issue that's blown way out of proportion and has become an issue while other much more serious problems are ignored.

Dick

Great responses all. I have been told that the wine in biblical times was very much watered down and not like the wine we know today.
I don't happen to think that there is anything wrong with the occasional glass of wine or even the occasional beer. I know some in the Church would disagree with me. I've seen Christian brothers and sisters enjoying wine or beer at a restruant and have not had a second thought about it. As long as abuse and drunkenness do not result. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Paul's comment about wine to Timothy.

I guess nobody has stomach problems today. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yah, grape juice is actually very good for the stomach. High in vitamin C and essential minerals. Blood purifier too.

I heard a fellow say that grape juice in the olden days before refrigeration was allowed to come into the form of a thick paste, and was stored in vessels. When they wanted the fruit of the vine, the mixed the paste with water. It didn't have to be fermented just because some like the occasional "snort."

At the last supper, Jesus said he would not drink the fruit of the vine with them until he drank it new in his father's kingdom. The fruit of the vine is grapes, not wine. The blessing is in the cluster. The wine they drank was squeezed grapes from a cluster, hence Pharaohs cup bearer.

I have a juicer, and can tell you, there is nothing to compare to fresh processed grape juice.

And for the stomach problems, like the doctor said, "You got the right cure, just the wrong dosage." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Every drunkard know at least a part of that verse.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Who hath woe? Who hath contentions? Who hath wounds without cause? Who hath babbling? Who hath wounds without cause? Who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again. (Prov 23:29-35)

There is no law against a Christian drinking liquor. Why one would want to is beyond me. It's the fashion of the world. I haven't had a drink of booze in 24 years. Not bragging, just rejoicing! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I do not want to give anyone a cause for offence. And I'm not a hypocrite, cause I don't ever drink liquor, at home or abroad. But y'all help yourselves. Just don't use the Lord Jesus Christ to justify it. He was falsely accused of being a wine bibber and a glutton (among other things.) He was NOT! And it goes against his character as God manifest in the flesh to make fermented hooch knowing men would over indulge and get drunk.

But we are all free moral agents. Belly up to the bar, I guess. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

in . . . . . . . . .

"Peace, Love and a Sweet Spirit." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

well, since many many christians are slipping down the slippery slope of internet porno, i think you all should give up your computers.

I believe that a non drinking Christian is saltier than one that does.

I have the freedom not to drink and don't.

Why should a Christian drink?

You can't say that. You don't know that. Actually, if I had to put money on "saltiness", I would put money on the drinker. The drinker would be more likely to keep company that was void of salt, and in need of salt. Salt would then become salty and would become recongized by the unsalty.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I can't believe that the measure of saltiness lies with a persons drinking habits. God uses people of all walks of life, all stages of maturity, and some of them tip the bottle.

Who's tossing the computer out? Anybody?

depends on the Christian ...

Joel,

Your logic is faulty. It is not the beer bottle that defiles, it is the contents. It is not the computer that defiles, it is the contents.

The proper analogy would be for me to invite you into my home for a bit of Porno Lite. I mean, I do have the liberty, right? And it doesn't hurt anybody, right? And as long as we don't watch hardcore, what harm does it do, right? And if we don't go and watch it in public where people can see us doing it, then it must be okay, right?

I mean, the next step is to say that if Jesus had a coimputer, he might have watched some, the lite stuff, or at least have given a computer to a person at a wedding feast to get some "instruction." That goes against his character. Obviously he doesn't condone that, nor would he give revellers a cause to sin with hooch. He's a better man than that.

Hey! Any of you good Christian men ever been to a wedding reception where they didn't serve alcoholic drinks? I have. Lots of them. Mine was one of them. Do you suppose, just by a mere stroke of blind providence that the Lord Jesus Christ could have been to one like that? Why not? Just because the world has to have a drunken bash to celebrate a marriage does not mean that ALL marriages are accompanied by liquor. I'll just give the Lord Jesus the benefit of the doubt in this one. You all do what you want with him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Hey, people do wicked things in the back seats of cars, too. You going to quit driving? Stop staying at motels then too. And I've seen some real hanky panky going on in grocery stores. You going to quit eating?

You see, it's just like Shakespeare said, "O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."

But I maintain that you have the liberty to pull a cork if you want. I just can't figure out for the life of me why you'd want to. . . . . . . . .

But I still revel in . . . . .

"Peace, Love and a Sweet Spirit." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I can't see why he should. What Jesus made from water at Cana wasn't "just grape juice," as some maintain that Biblical wine is (if it were, the Bible wouldn't refer to getting drunk on it). The advice to take a little wine for the stomach's sake is in the Bible, not a line invented by a winery's ad agent.

Why would a Christian drink? For an aid to digestion and the blood, for the taste, to be sociable (quietly downing a glass of table wine instead of having a debate with one's host), etc.

There's no Christian value in teetotaling (especially if it's also paired with "Look how clean I am").

Church proscription of drinking is a very recent innovation with a purely political origin.

.

Shootist,

Your last post is wrong on many levels, but I'll let it slide.

I'm going to ask you a few simple questions.

Would you rather have a pastor who drank a 12 pack of Miller Light in the comfort of his own home, on a nightly basis.

Or... would you rather have a pastor who spends 60 seconds a day looking at Porn on his computer in the comfort of his own home. He doesn't even "rough up the suspect".

Which would you rather have your kids around? Which would you consider "saltier"? Neither ain't an answer.

A computer brings the world largest porn library into your home. To your family. If you thought one of your family members was even the slightest tempted to look at porn, would you toss the computer? Simple question.........

For a guy that says he doesn't have a dog in the fight, I'd say you are running a kennel.

Since my answer isn't an answer to you, I'll let it drop. A 12 pack a night habit makes him a drunkard. ANd 60 seconds of porn makes him a pervert.

So I guess you think there are a pile of drunken perverts out there preachifying and holding up <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> the standard of holiness to a bunch of people? My answer is neither. I've sat under some men that were morally, mentally and physically clean.

I'm sure my little flock expects at least the same from me. And I am not commenting on levels of saltiness. That's SU35's dog, not mine.

Drunkenness and porn are both sins. 'Scuse me, I gotta couple of dogs to feed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Like everything else in this Creation, alcohol has its place. It has been shown that a limited amount is good for one's health. (chocolate too) Porn isn't God's creation, it is our perversion of God's gift of sex. No amount of porn is good for us. Jesus has a prohibition against porn (looking at a woman, not our wife, with lust is adultery)
Funny thing is the amount of time some churches and men's organizations fighting porn. It is bad, it does corrupt our relationships, but there are worse symptoms of our sin that rarely get a mention.
As for the question about the guzzling pastor. If he is drinking that much, he must be skimming off the plate to feed his demons...

My point is/was that the "Christians shouldn't drink for the good of their brother" crowd is involved in many things that could cause their brother to stumble, but somehow choose alcohol as the measure of saltiness. Why not attack those who have cable tv? Luxury cars? Big houses? Boats? Anything can cause somebody else to stumble.

Alcohol is in the Bible. Christians CAN drink it and have a clear conscience. It can and is abused.

Computers are a good thing. They are useful. They can be abused. They are abused by a large number of "godly" men who secretly struggle with addiction. Much much more Christian men stuggle with their personal computer stuggle with a bottle. And the funny thing is that a man could get rid of that temptation by simply getting rid of the computer.... but nobody loves God enough to do that.. right? I have never heard of a Church as a collective body decide to get rid of personal computers to help the "less mature" members with their stuggle. Why not? What's more important, the internet or a persons standing before God?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the anti-alcohol crowd better look at EVERYTHING they they do if they are going to judge the Christian that partakes in alcohol....

Clear? I can't be the only one who see's this.............