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Going to buy one or the other in a few months. I'm not interested in discussing the effectiveness of either on Whitetails. I'm not a reloader "yet" but will be as soon as a shop is completed and space is available.
What I want to know is, does either lend itself more easily to load development or bullet choices. I don't think in terms of throat length and mag confines or bullet choices, so I need to ask you guys. I would just like to pick the one that would more easily lend itself to the things a reloader does to achieve better accuracy. Does either the 243 Montana or 7mm-08 excel in that area?
If it's a wash, I'll likely pick the 243 since Whitetails will be the only game hunted and the kids or wife may use it at times, so recoil is a concern. 223 or 308 if you don't Reload. A schitty Colt Krunchenticker ain't even in the same book,let alone page...as a Montucky 223. Now as the 243 vs 7-08 goes,in said platform...you is Hungchow in several ways. The 243 is 1-10" which sucks heavy ass and the 7-08 has more throat than box,though are twisted with enough RPM to do it all(which means 162's). I'd rather leap a 162,than kiss a Ping Pong Ball in the 243. The 223 Montucky will be shot a whole [bleep] bunch more than anything else and along with the actual act of shooting,there is a byproduct of non-lineal "luck" that reliably begins to blossom. Hint. Now will a 223,243,7-08 and 308 shoot nice Agg's? Yes and reliably. Reliabler yet,is the dot connection of trigger time bolstering the daintytitude of relative Agg sizing. Conjoin light done right,in a handy/dandy parcel that is funner than [bleep] to shot and there will be a long line of patrons eagerly awaiting their turn. Good boolits,in good places...do great thangs. Funny how it actually works. Re-hint.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I'd go 7-08. .243 will be fine for whitetails but life MAY be more than whitetails tomorrow. 7-08 is more versatile, recoil will be minimally more but added bullet weight is often appreciated. Here we have a collection of 7-08's, wife's Dakota, son-in law's Browning, 2 Remingtons for my daughter and self in long guns and one pistol. Shot everything from prairie poodles to elk, kudu and caribou, lost count on deer (assorted) and pronghorns. Reloading is a snap and 7mm bullets are offered in nearly any size and shape (110-175 grains for sure) but factory stuff is available and as good as it gets. Still in doubt flip a coin.
Why does a man who is 50 pounds overweight complain about a 10 pound rifle being too heavy? SCI Life Member 4**
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
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Lightweight, Alabama Whitetails, and kids mean 243... especially in a rifle as light as the Kimber.
I've had at least 4 or 5 10-twist 243's... they work just fine. In an ideal world, a 9-twist is better, but in a world full of 6mm bullets it's pole vaulting mouse turds to fret over a 10-twist.
Best Regards...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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The 223 Montucky will be shot a whole [bleep] bunch more than anything else and along with the actual act of shooting,there is a byproduct of non-lineal "luck" that reliably begins to blossom. B-, ironic you mention this now, good timing. I'm looking at picking one up this weekend that supposedly won't shoot for my nephews to try to burn out the barrel for exactly the reason you state. Hopefully it doesn't shoot as well as the 308 I picked up that wouldn't shoot. Any particular load combos you recommend, assuming components are findable?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Going to buy one or the other in a few months. I'm not interested in discussing the effectiveness of either on Whitetails. I'm not a reloader "yet" but will be as soon as a shop is completed and space is available.
What I want to know is, does either lend itself more easily to load development or bullet choices. I don't think in terms of throat length and mag confines or bullet choices, so I need to ask you guys. I would just like to pick the one that would more easily lend itself to the things a reloader does to achieve better accuracy. Does either the 243 Montana or 7mm-08 excel in that area?
If it's a wash, I'll likely pick the 243 since Whitetails will be the only game hunted and the kids or wife may use it at times, so recoil is a concern. given you wife will hunt it the .243! For the 7-08 I would go .308 as easily the most simple to load and shoot, I find the 308 easy get to shoot accurately and it comes in those big green boxes of 500 rounds per... its too bad you don't reload the .257 Roberts I have in select classic is a wonderful rifle, (but I know nothing as its a short action and everyone knows they are awful with 100 at only 3000 FPS) but I would take a Montana in same any day.
Last edited by jimmyp; 02/20/14.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'd go 7-08. .243 will be fine for whitetails but life MAY be more than whitetails tomorrow. 7-08 is more versatile, recoil will be minimally more but added bullet weight is often appreciated. Here we have a collection of 7-08's, wife's Dakota, son-in law's Browning, 2 Remingtons for my daughter and self in long guns and one pistol. Shot everything from prairie poodles to elk, kudu and caribou, lost count on deer (assorted) and pronghorns. Reloading is a snap and 7mm bullets are offered in nearly any size and shape (110-175 grains for sure) but factory stuff is available and as good as it gets. Still in doubt flip a coin. Better to just buy a 375 H&H, because life MAY include a cape buffalo hunt someday. It's more versatile than the 7mm-08, so that makes it better.
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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Going to buy one or the other in a few months. I'm not interested in discussing the effectiveness of either on Whitetails. I'm not a reloader "yet" but will be as soon as a shop is completed and space is available.
What I want to know is, does either lend itself more easily to load development or bullet choices. I don't think in terms of throat length and mag confines or bullet choices, so I need to ask you guys. I would just like to pick the one that would more easily lend itself to the things a reloader does to achieve better accuracy. Does either the 243 Montana or 7mm-08 excel in that area?
If it's a wash, I'll likely pick the 243 since Whitetails will be the only game hunted and the kids or wife may use it at times, so recoil is a concern. 223 or 308 if you don't Reload. A schitty Colt Krunchenticker ain't even in the same book,let alone page...as a Montucky 223. Now as the 243 vs 7-08 goes,in said platform...you is Hungchow in several ways. The 243 is 1-10" which sucks heavy ass and the 7-08 has more throat than box,though are twisted with enough RPM to do it all(which means 162's). I'd rather leap a 162,than kiss a Ping Pong Ball in the 243. The 223 Montucky will be shot a whole [bleep] bunch more than anything else and along with the actual act of shooting,there is a byproduct of non-lineal "luck" that reliably begins to blossom. Hint. Now will a 223,243,7-08 and 308 shoot nice Agg's? Yes and reliably. Reliabler yet,is the dot connection of trigger time bolstering the daintytitude of relative Agg sizing. Conjoin light done right,in a handy/dandy parcel that is funner than [bleep] to shot and there will be a long line of patrons eagerly awaiting their turn. Good boolits,in good places...do great thangs. Funny how it actually works. Re-hint. "I'd rather leap a 162,than kiss a Ping Pong Ball in the 243" I still don't know what you mean by that statement and I've read it several times. Do you mean the 243 is too light? If so how is the 223 a better choice? I'm talking a Whitetail only rifle and 200 yards is a long shot around here. I'm sure the 308 is extremely versatile but recoil is a consideration.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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It means the twist is [bleep].
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
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What ballistic coefficient do you recommend for a .243? (for hunting purposes)
+.500?
Last edited by SamOlson; 02/20/14.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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I don't recommend according to BC. I do know that my favorite don't work in a 1-10" twist and I have a bushel full of those.
Guess I'm curious as to what the upside of a 1-10" twist is?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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It means the twist is [bleep]. That may be but since my maximum distance would be 300 yards, do I really need to be concerned with high BC bullets? I mean wouldn't I be more likely to get an accurate load being able to kiss the lands, or is the point that those bullets that will kiss won't stabilize with the 1 in 10 twist? Trying to learn something here.
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Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Going to buy one or the other in a few months. I'm not interested in discussing the effectiveness of either on Whitetails. I'm not a reloader "yet" but will be as soon as a shop is completed and space is available.
What I want to know is, does either lend itself more easily to load development or bullet choices. I don't think in terms of throat length and mag confines or bullet choices, so I need to ask you guys. I would just like to pick the one that would more easily lend itself to the things a reloader does to achieve better accuracy. Does either the 243 Montana or 7mm-08 excel in that area?
If it's a wash, I'll likely pick the 243 since Whitetails will be the only game hunted and the kids or wife may use it at times, so recoil is a concern. 223 or 308 if you don't Reload. A schitty Colt Krunchenticker ain't even in the same book,let alone page...as a Montucky 223. Now as the 243 vs 7-08 goes,in said platform...you is Hungchow in several ways. The 243 is 1-10" which sucks heavy ass and the 7-08 has more throat than box,though are twisted with enough RPM to do it all(which means 162's). I'd rather leap a 162,than kiss a Ping Pong Ball in the 243. The 223 Montucky will be shot a whole [bleep] bunch more than anything else and along with the actual act of shooting,there is a byproduct of non-lineal "luck" that reliably begins to blossom. Hint. Now will a 223,243,7-08 and 308 shoot nice Agg's? Yes and reliably. Reliabler yet,is the dot connection of trigger time bolstering the daintytitude of relative Agg sizing. Conjoin light done right,in a handy/dandy parcel that is funner than [bleep] to shot and there will be a long line of patrons eagerly awaiting their turn. Good boolits,in good places...do great thangs. Funny how it actually works. Re-hint. "I'd rather leap a 162,than kiss a Ping Pong Ball in the 243" I still don't know what you mean by that statement and I've read it several times. Do you mean the 243 is too light? If so how is the 223 a better choice? I'm talking a Whitetail only rifle and 200 yards is a long shot around here. I'm sure the 308 is extremely versatile but recoil is a consideration. He would rather shoot high BC 162 AMAX's in a 7mm-08 than low BC bullets in the 243. 243 has good bullets available, but the slow twist on the 243 Montana won't stabilize them. Accurate, high BC bullets will perform better for you than low BC bullets that kiss the rifling. If you are bound and determined to shoot low BC bullets out of a Montana, you may as well go down to the 223 - you'll burn 1/2 the powder and the recoil is so light it will encourage a lot of shooting. Lots of shooting is more important than chambering, BC, etc.... David
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Campfire Outfitter
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Going to buy one or the other in a few months. I'm not interested in discussing the effectiveness of either on Whitetails. I'm not a reloader "yet" but will be as soon as a shop is completed and space is available.
What I want to know is, does either lend itself more easily to load development or bullet choices. I don't think in terms of throat length and mag confines or bullet choices, so I need to ask you guys. I would just like to pick the one that would more easily lend itself to the things a reloader does to achieve better accuracy. Does either the 243 Montana or 7mm-08 excel in that area?
If it's a wash, I'll likely pick the 243 since Whitetails will be the only game hunted and the kids or wife may use it at times, so recoil is a concern. 223 or 308 if you don't Reload. A schitty Colt Krunchenticker ain't even in the same book,let alone page...as a Montucky 223. Now as the 243 vs 7-08 goes,in said platform...you is Hungchow in several ways. The 243 is 1-10" which sucks heavy ass and the 7-08 has more throat than box,though are twisted with enough RPM to do it all(which means 162's). I'd rather leap a 162,than kiss a Ping Pong Ball in the 243. The 223 Montucky will be shot a whole [bleep] bunch more than anything else and along with the actual act of shooting,there is a byproduct of non-lineal "luck" that reliably begins to blossom. Hint. Now will a 223,243,7-08 and 308 shoot nice Agg's? Yes and reliably. Reliabler yet,is the dot connection of trigger time bolstering the daintytitude of relative Agg sizing. Conjoin light done right,in a handy/dandy parcel that is funner than [bleep] to shot and there will be a long line of patrons eagerly awaiting their turn. Good boolits,in good places...do great thangs. Funny how it actually works. Re-hint. "I'd rather leap a 162,than kiss a Ping Pong Ball in the 243" I still don't know what you mean by that statement and I've read it several times. Do you mean the 243 is too light? If so how is the 223 a better choice? I'm talking a Whitetail only rifle and 200 yards is a long shot around here. I'm sure the 308 is extremely versatile but recoil is a consideration. He would rather shoot high BC 162 AMAX's in a 7mm-08 than low BC bullets in the 243. 243 has good bullets available, but the slow twist on the 243 Montana won't stabilize them. Accurate, high BC bullets will perform better for you than low BC bullets that kiss the rifling. If you are bound and determined to shoot low BC bullets out of a Montana, you may as well go down to the 223 - you'll burn 1/2 the powder and the recoil is so light it will encourage a lot of shooting. Lots of shooting is more important than chambering, BC, etc.... David What do you mean by "high BC bullets will perform better" Do you mean be more accurate at 200 yard range or just that they will hold their energy and not drop as much at long range? Keep in mind that a 200 yard shot is a very long one where I hunt. I'm just wondering if the low BC but heavier bullet of the 243 won't be a better killer at the shorter range.
Last edited by R_H_Clark; 02/20/14.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,930 Likes: 12 |
Guess I'm curious as to what the upside of a 1-10" twist is? There's no downside when you're out hunting with one. .500 = 105? .420 = 90 Scenar. Which works in a 10". .080 BC makes or breaks what? Shooting steel at 800 yards? I fail to see a problem. If it's a wash, I'll likely pick the 243 since Whitetails will be the only game hunted and the kids or wife may use it at times, so recoil is a concern. Doesn't sound like a sniper rifle is required.
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It means the twist is [bleep]. That may be but since my maximum distance would be 300 yards, do I really need to be concerned with high BC bullets? I mean wouldn't I be more likely to get an accurate load being able to kiss the lands, or is the point that those bullets that will kiss won't stabilize with the 1 in 10 twist? Trying to learn something here. You don't wanna be seating into the lands with a hunting load.
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Titty Shooter,
May have more than (1) rifle myself and in mebbe more than (1) chambering.
Boolit weight means dick.
Hint.
Brad,
You poor,poor stupid [bleep].
Bless your heart,that you're still [bleep] tryin'.
Laffin'!
'bird,
My first pitch would be a 75A-Max kiss,in front of '335,with 400 fueled R/P hulls.
I hear good thangs.
'mmyp,
Do tell about how a 243 and 7-08 are "tough" to load for. Laffin'!
Please consider Whining a leetle louder,a leetle longer and leetle more often about your Do Nothing Bob.
It's a [bleep] hoot!
'Clark,
Grab a 223 Montucky and let everyone take a turn,then get back to me.
300yds ain't nearly far enough away,to be "fair".
Hint.
SammO,
The upside to a 9" 6mm,is that there is no downside. You can go .547 BC in 105,if'n you wish...though in fairness I'm smitten with .530 Fueled Forays.
Cheer up,it ain't like I ain't suffered 1-10" and 12" 6mm's.
Hint.
'goat,
Too bad I cain't recall the 100's of 1000's of kisses I've happily launched.
Hell...I reckon I may even toted a smooch on a Hunt.
Hint.
This schit do get funny and fast.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Boxer What would be your bullet of choice for the 9 twist 223? Please give a second in case the first doesn't do well.
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Campfire Tracker
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'Clark,
Sloooowwwwwww things down,skin 'er back and read everything I said again. It's all there.
Then thank me later.
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Campfire Outfitter
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That may be but since my maximum distance would be 300 yards, do I really need to be concerned with high BC bullets? I mean wouldn't I be more likely to get an accurate load being able to kiss the lands, or is the point that those bullets that will kiss won't stabilize with the 1 in 10 twist?
Trying to learn something here.
A couple thoughts Nosler manual #7 243 Winchester, 100 gr. Partition (similar to typical cup and core in ballistic co-efficient) BC: .384 MV, 2900 FPS 200 yd. zero 1.7� high @ 100 yds., 7.3� low at 300. 7mm-08, 140 gr. Accubond (my favorite in the 7mm-08) BC:.485 MV: 2800 fps 200 yd. zero, 1.8� high @ 100 yds., 7.7� low at 300.. I� I don�t know how the terrain is in your part of Alabama, but here it is thick. That taken with the fact that I am a meat hunter I almost never shoot past 300 yds. Additionally due to the fact that if an animal is not DRT, he many times is not found. A hole going in and one going out gives one two chances to find a blood trail. Conseqently I prefer a heavier bullet, usually 6.5 mm and up for hogs and deer. Now as to kissing the lands. It is my understanding that the chambers on production rifles are cut to SAAMI specs. Factory ammo is also loaded to SAAMI Specs. That means that any commercial ammo should chamber in any production rifle of the same caliber. I�ve owned many rifles from A to Z. It has been my experience on most that if one was to load the bullet out to where it kissed the lands, sometimes the base of the bullet does not even touch the case, much less fit in the rifles magazine. Typically magazine length is the most common limiting factor. Here is an example. This is the detachable magazine for a Sako 75 Varmint, chambered for the 260 Remington. Sakos are generally accurate and their chambers are not known for sloppiness. Notice the Maximum OAL of the cartridge that can be loaded in the magazine is 2.940. I don't know how you are, but I prefer to have a little wiggle room in the magazine/cartridge box. The SAAMI max OAL cartridge length for the 260 Remington is 2.800�. I�ve developed a load for my Sako at 2.900 inches. This particular cartridge measures 2.902. If I do my part the Sako will put three in a ragged hole at 100 yds. Next, using my Stoney Point OAL gauge and a 125 gr. Nosler Partition, here is the cartridge �kissing the lands� As you can see, to load this round with the bullet �kissing the lands , the rifle would have to function as a single shot. Good hunting and best of luck with whatever you choose. Best, GWB
A Kill Artist. When I draw, I draw blood.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If you get the 7, you will still need to get a 243.
I regret the first half of my life was spent without one.
Fun to shoot and with modern bullets it kills like lightening.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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