Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die vs. Redding Type S Bushing Neck Die

I have a Redding neck sizer for 17 Rem. around here some where, I bought it long before LCD's were available, as soon a LCD's came on the market I bought one and ran some tests, the LCD always made the best ammo.

Try one you will like it!

Lee Collet die user.. why reinvent the wheel...

]I use the Lee Collet die. Never tried the Redding Type "S" neck bushing die. Why try to fix that which is not broken?
Fotis

I use the LCD......it's simple & it works.

The Redding S die is simply too expensive to have a bunch & does not provide as accurate a job.

If the brass gets too brittle for the LCD, just anneal or schit can it if it's been used that much.

I also prefer the Forster Benchrest seating die over all others.

MM

I'm 50/50.

When the Lee Collet Dies work, they work very well--and I used to use them a lot. But have seen too many recently that are a PITA to adjust, and some I just haven't been able to get work right--and I've been using them for a long time.

Haven't seen that with Redding dies, and finding the right bushing has been easy. Since I don't like to have to fool around any more than necessary, these says have more Redding "S" than Lee collets these days.

But LCD's do work very well--when they work.

When you say the LCD won't work correctly or won't adjust, what have you been finding is the actual problem? Out of spec, lacking polish, just messed up, etc?

What do we need to look for on the defect side of things?

With about 2 grand worth of Redding Comp dies on the table, I tried a few collet dies and found .001-.002 runout, equal to or better than neck turned and competition bushing dies.

I don't completely clean up the necks, normally about 75% but I bought collet dies for everything but the 7WSM and plan to order a custom set from Lee.

DakotaDeer,

here's an example. My first set of Lee Collet Dies in .220 Swift worked great, with minimal adjustment. But I sold them when I sold the rifle, because I was younger and dumber. When I got another Swift 15-20 years later I ordered another set, and spent all of one afternoon and part of the next day trying to make them work, and could not.

I am not exactly inexperienced with reloading dies, and Lee probably would have replaced them, but I'd also experienced some problems with other Lee stuff in the past few years. I handload for a living so for me that was a wasted work day.

Have yet to encounter the same problem with Redding S-dies. I make a couple of measurements, order the right bushing, and start loading. In fact I use them for my 6mm PPC benchrest rifle, and rounds come out with at most .0005" bullet runout, and 5-shot groups average .18" at 100 yards. It took about 5 minutes to set up the dies. Yeah, they cost more, but....

This doesn't mean I don't buy and use other Lee stuff. I love their bullet casting products, for instance. But I don't have time to waste on stuff that might not work.

The kink with bushing dies is if you need to move the brass very much.

For example, I load a lot of 308 Winchester for rifles with production SAAMI chambers. The fired necks come out of the chambers about .344". If I'm using WW brass, I wind up with a loaded neck diameter about .332", so I need to size them to .330" for the desired neck tension. In my experience for these dimensions I don't wind up with straight sized brass unless I size down in two or even three steps with bushing dies.

It's not always easy to get, but I think the very best set up is a conventional FL die whose dimensions properly fit the brass and chamber in the situation.

Mathman, I have heard others echo your sentiment as well. I guess it depends of the level of consistency that you/we are chasing.

One friends opinion is similar to yours. That is to use a standard F/L sizing die to set neck and bump shoulder as necessary. Full length size competely as required. I typically F/L size hunting rounds anyway to eliminate one negative variable.

Said friend then uses only competition type seating die to obtain the best consistency in that part of the equation.

It is interesting also that Redding sells a die set for a limited number or cartridges called the "Master Hunter Die Set" which consist of exactly what is described above. (A Standard F/L Sizing die and a Competition Seater)

If I did choose to adopt this particulat two die method I think the only thing that I would add is a Carbide Sizing Button the the F/L die as I believe it truly does make a difference in reducing neck runout whether full length or partial full length resizing.

I guess ultimately I need to ask myself this question. Since I am first and foremost a hunter and secondly a guy who likes to wring out whatever accuracy I can from a given rifle how far do I really need to go in this regard.

I do enjoy trying to shoot tiny holes in paper from a bench for fun and knowledge but ultimately the shot that truly matters to me is the first shot from a cold barrel in most times less than ideal conditions.

I suppose if I lived in a place where I had the opportunity to shoot at game (or steel for that matter) frequently at long ranges from prone position that I may need to adjust my ideas further.

twofish

I prefer to neck size as long as the brass will allow it, but when I do eventually have to bump the shoulder back, I have had my best results from a Forster die that I had them hone the neck out for me to give proper tension without using the expander. Produces remarkably straight ammo and were it not for the fact that I like not having to clean off case lube, I could happily use that die every time I load. The other I have tried that gives equally good results is a Redding body die in conjunction with a Lee Collet die�


John

mathman,

I haven't run into that problem yet, but see how it could happen. Right now I mostly use Redding bushing dies on several smaller varmint rounds from .17 Hornet to .22-250, and they work great.

My .308 dies happen to be Forsters, which have worked well, if not to quite "benchrest" standards.

One thing I've tinkered with over the years (though not as much as I used to) is getting "standard" dies to size brass straight. A couple weeks ago I bought some RCBS .338 RCM dies because they were the only one quickly available. Found RCBS is now using a smoother, more tapered expander ball than formerly, and that by raising it halfway up inside the die, and leaving the lock-nut loose, brass would resize very straightly.

This took about three minutes of experimentation--which is one reason I'm not real fond of dies where the expander-ball/decapping-pin assembly HAS to be locked down firmly. Sometimes they work better with a floating expander/pin.

I do have a couple of conventional dies that absolutely fit the brass/chamber of my particular rifle, so don't need the expander/decapper at all. One is an RCBS for my .300 H&H and the other a Redding for my .221 Fireball.

Probably the best fit I've run into is a vanilla RCBS sizer for my buddy's Browning Low Wall in 260 Remington. Thread it in to touch the shell holder and the brass gets sized just enough for smooth chambering. Also, using the lot of RP brass we started with years ago when he got the rifle, the expander ball only lightly kisses the case necks on the way out.

I've followed your writing/advice about getting regular dies to size straight for quite a while, and your tips work. Night before last I FL sized some 300 Savage brass in an RCBS sizer w/o the ball in place, subsequently pushing them over a Hornady elliptical ball in another die. I checked the necks for runout and the worst ones barely showed .0015", most showed .001" and less. I'm thinking about getting a little arbor press and a Wilson seater to go with.

Is your Forster 308 sizer stock, or did you get it honed?

It's stock. Average bullet runout is around .002-.003, but I'm not shooting match rifles, just hunting rifles, and it works just fine for them.

I was thinking more along the lines of how much the necks were getting cold worked. One Forster was plenty tight for the thinnest 308 brass I've come across, and it needed honing to .335" to play nice with Lapua and Federal cases.

Their seaters, regular and Ultra, make very straight cartridges for me.

John,

What was wrong with the die or what did it do that you could not make it work?

MM

It was four years ago and I don't remember much other than trying everything in the directions, then trying all the advice I could find on the Internet. Didn't get anywhere and eventually gave up.

Usually I give a company a chance to make good, but if other products from the same company have been mediocre I eventually quit. A lot of Lee stuff works fine--I'm a big fan of their bullet molds and other relatively simple stuff, but have had troubles with their more complex tools. So I stick to tools that have worked consistently and easily.

JB,

Would you happen to be working on an article on the 338 RCM...?

This is the one reason that I like the Redding Carbide Expander Button. Its spherical design is inherently more forgiving than other sizing button designs plus with it being carbide it has a lower coefficient of friction thereby creating less tension, torsional, angular or straight linear on the case neck itself while doing its job.

I would imagine if left slightly loose that this type sizer may work even better although with its spherical design I am not certain that it would be required.


I have not seen one of the new RCBS sizing buttons. Perhaps they are similar in design rather than the cylindrical types on the ones I have.

twofish

It's not worth 36.00 bucks to me, bought a few in the past.

If I have the choice I will not use any die that takes a fired case that is oversize, size it to be undersize, and then expand it to fit again. Not when I can use a collet die and size it down once and not have to lube cases.

I was sold on bushing dies and used them for a decade, but that includes neck turning, lots of lube, cleaning the lube off and this style of die puts any brass thickness variation on the inside of the neck.

twofish, the collet dies are cheap so buy one and compare the runout of your typical setup against the collet die. I did it and found runout to be equal too or better than my other dies and that was entirely dependent on the amount the brass was turned.