Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics How fancy a binocular do I really need?

As I understand it, if you purchase a binocular and still have money to fritter away on a rifle (or if you kept a rifle rather than selling it to apply the money to the binocular purchase), you have not spent enough on the binocular.

Well back to where this all started - I went with the Zeiss Conquest HD 8X32's - Demos from Cameraland. @ $675 still a chunk of change but no where near the 2K+ that some alphas bring. I do not think the Conquest will be the top of the top or the bottom of the bottom but if price vs quality were shown in a curve I believe these would be at the point were the curve breaks over and plateaus (where improvements become very expensive and more difficult to see). From what I have seen and read they appear to be a leader in the $1000 range and a bargain at the $675 price. Time will tell but I feel good about my choice so far. I fully expect a Swarovski 8X32 EL or Leica Ultravid to be a better bino - I would certainly hope so as they costs over 3X more than the Conquest. Just as the Conquest is 2X more than the Leupold Mojave and is very likely not 2X better.

You can shop and get good prices/deals on anything. My 8x30 Swaro SLC cost me $550 bucks on close out.They stay in the truck year round and get used a lot.

Centershot,

I think you will be more than happy with the Conquest HDs. I have only used them on a couple of occasions but what I saw was very good. For the price you paid I think you got a steal!

Summary:

The best is the best but if you can't afford the best you can always buy the not best because it's just as good as the best. Almost.



Travis

^ exactly.........I think.

I'm always amazed at how many think the ONLY people who really know how to make optics are Germans and Austrians--and that they've kept their secrets in some vault for a century and a half.

While the biggest advancements in optics were made in Germany (mostly by Carl Zeiss and his two eventual partners, Ernst Abbe and Otto Schott)in the late 1800's, the word started getting out early. The Japanese started sending people to study optics in Germany and Austria in the 1880's, and by WWI there were several Japanese optical factories making very sophisticated lenses. They made even further progress in the years before the two World Wars, though WWII set them back. By the 1970's Japan started it present domination of the professional camera market.

At the opposite end, German and Austrian companies have been out-sourcing quite a few of their parts and products for a while. One well-known Austrian firm (not Swarovski) has had its binoculars made in Japan for around a decade now--and when Japanese production started they actually got BETTER.

Several "alpha" companies have used parts from Meopta (Czech Republic) for a number of years, and the original Zeiss Conquests were mostly made by Meopta. Zeiss ran into pricing problems, however, as the Czech economy started recovering from the Soviet years, which is probably why Zeiss turned to China and Japan for their latest Terra scopes and binoculars.
But even before that Zeiss had started getting one of their spotting scopes, the Dialyt field spotter) made in Japan to their specifications.

Leica has long had some stuff assembled in Portugal, and only the most expensive Minox binoculars are made in Germany.

All of this was done because Germany pays such high wages. Even 20 years ago, the average Zeiss worker made about twice as much as the average Leupold worker. If you think the quality difference was obvious, when I first visited the Zeiss factories in German in 1993, one of the other optical companies they praised highly was Leupold--which had recently started multicoating the glass in their scopes, and already was ahead of Zeiss in both interior baffling to reduce stray light, and water-proofing.

All of which is why so many companies around the world are making optics so close to the German/Austrian companies, and for less loney. The knowledge of optical manufacturing has been dispersing from Europe for well over a century now--and some has been dispersed by German companies themselves, when they've contracted for parts and even entire scopes and binoculars with Asian companies.

Leica, Swarovski and Zeiss sell great optics, but if anybody believes they're the ONLY companies on earth making great binoculars due to secrets only they know, then you're essentially saying optical manufacturing hasn't changed since the 1870's.

That is true, but if you could get Minox, Swarovski, Vortex, Meopta at the same price, which would you buy? You need to be honest now and not in defense of the improvement of the up and coming brands...

Yeah. Why not pick the "very best" if you can get that last 1% of performance without the 300% price penalty?

Swarovski.
For resale value....

I don't think the big 3 are the only ones that make great optics but.......I do think that while some of the others know how corners often get cut to make price point binos. Nikon has some of the best of the best in the Premiers and EDGs but you pay for the extra care in assembly and cutting edge technology. They also make some of the worst, cheapos that are not much better than the bare eye. Minox is similar and a few others. Zeiss with it's Terra line is an interesting experiment. It seems they are selling the name with that line. Not sure how many of the parts come from Zeiss. It would be interesting to see what an FL would cost using the same parts only assembled in China or Japan and if the quality would be the same in the end. While I have not owned a super high end bino I have over the last 10 years owned Nikon LX, Vortex Viper & Viper HDs all very good to my eyes.

Kirk,

Your question is irrelevant, because it's based on a hypothetical that doesn't exist, and never will. What we're talking about here involves market economics, just like the .22 rimfire threads that seemingly go on and on and on--which is the reason there's NEVER going to be a time when all good binoculars cost exactly the same. Some company will always try to undersell the others, and that's the reason we now have Zeiss binoculars made in China.

Hey, as a matter of fact there IS a Zeiss binocular for under $400 now! But I'm not going to buy one just because it's a Zeiss. First I'd have to compare it to other binoculars in its price range to see if it agrees with my eyes and how solid it feels. Then go on some Internet sites to check out how the same binocular has held up for other people, and the quality of customer service.

Sir,
I was setting up to purchase a wonderful set of Swarovskis from Him for the price of the Euro HD's. Dang it.
Missed them by this much.
Oh well.

Women and optics, you get what you pay for!

Hypothetical, yes, irrelevant, no. People would prefer the most expensive if not for the price. There is value there, not everyone will pay for it...

So John, with the actual performance being so close between the "alpha" brands and the upper crust models from Asia, is it mostly because of the cost of labor ? I'm assuming that the quality of the glass, coatings, prism's are similar if the "view" performance is that close.

I won a pair of Zeiss 8x40 Binos in the December 2013 give away and they are very nice. Actually, the best pair of binos I've ever owned.

They are not Zeiss best I guess, but they are my best. They have a special price on them while supply lasts. A closeout I think.

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/zeiss.pl?page=zeissconquest524508

Ed J

RD,

Cost of labor is always part of anything's price, and China also has a Schott glass factory, which I'd assume makes lens glass at a lower price than a Schott factory in a higher-wage country.

When buying binoculars I like to visit birding sites like better view desired. They give honest reviews and tell one what they consider are the best per category regardless of price.

Presently they rate a Nikon 7x's as the best all around bino - even though they're not waterproof.

I admit, the wife and I like to go birding to (see how I threw the wife comment out there to preempt the gay comments... ) To me, it's like hunting year round but you don't pull the trigger when you I'd the prey.

Most every bino works good in good light. You're basically paying extra to identify shapes and colors in the shade, waterproof and fog proof, and ruggedness.

Just make sure that you don't get a pair from the grey market - the warranty may not be honored. My first high dollar pair of bins were Leica 10x42 trinovid bn and were from a grey market internet dealer - I didn't know what that was at the time. I sent the warranty card off and Leica basically replied gfy. Since then I've hunted with them, birder with them, used them as loaners for people and had them on deployments in Iraq, Africa, and other middle eastern countries. They still work fine today. So I guess the warranty was a wash anyways.

Also, don't overlook the compacts, they have some pretty amazing glass now in like 10x25 like the 10x25 ultra vids.

Our all around bino is the Zeiss 7x42 t fl. I'm kind of looking around for another 8x or 7x so we are both using the same pov when birding.

Kind of funny how having nice binos kind of turns you into a nature watcher. Just checking out a squirrel or bird turns into a new adventure with great glass.