Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 45 Super XTP VS 10MM XTP

I am kinda starting to want me a .45.



Travis

Blue is my response,

Jerry

+1.........

I've got several boxes of the Triton 450 SMC, aka 450 Short Magnum Cartridge in 165 gr and 230 gr loads. It's loaded to pretty potent power levels. I also run Buffalo Bore 255 gr hardcast in my 1911.
I dumped a Glock 20 and replaced it with the 1911 in 45 Super.

A properly built and timed 1911 can shoot both ACP and Super/SMC interchangeably, IMHO it is by far one of the most universal combinations you can have and quite under valued.

SMC and Super are identical except for primer size which is used, supers use lG PP While the SMC uses Sm.

Double Tap loads a number of potent loading as well in the SMC

But to do this correctly you need two different recoil springs.
Standard for the 45 ACP loads, including mild target.
Heavier for the Super. Read the history on the Super.
Even with a Square bottom firing pin stop and stronger main spring.

Takes about 2 minutes to switch out the recoil springs.

Takes about 2 minutes to switch out to the 460 with the Comp barrel also.
Much easier on the slide/frame than the Super. Do the research.
This "chambered" comp allows the barrel/slide disengagement to happened at around 45 +P pressures.
The Super caused too many problems. Again read up on it. That is why Johnney Rowland, Clark Custom and Wilson Combat came up with a better idea. I like the idea of NOT being able to load a ACP chamber with a hot round.

If you ever shot the 460. You would know. You can shoot the 460 with the comped barrel accurately as fast as any 45 ACP +P. I'm using a 20# Recoil spring in the 460. Cases eject 4 to 5 feet. Can't do that with a Super without the comp.

The 45 SUPER. Been there, done that. It tears your guns up. Slide velocity is too high on the return with the heavy springs needed. In some case the magazine spring has to be increased also to feed at this slide velocity.

Simple as this. If you have not experienced the 460 Rowland, you need to try one.

Mine is set up completely different. JRH increased the lock-up time with an 18,5 pound recoil spring. Throws brass 5 to 8 feet max. Shoots ACP and Super without the need to change springs. Clark only adds a heavier spring and that is why I did not choose to go that route.

Mat has shot more than one 460 Rowland. I am glad that you like yours, if it were not for the need of a compensator I might have gone that route. I simply do not want to add a compensator to my daily carry pistol.

I also do not like the heavy recoil springs for the reasons that you stated.

I did not say anything about daily carry. I either carry a S&W 60 with 3" barrel with adjustable sights or a Lightweight commander in 45 ACP. 45 ACP is plenty for daily carry. I use my 460 ON THE FARM. I hunt whitetail with it also. We have Eurasia hogs roaming the farm. I have been attack once. One of my sons carries a Delta Elite, the other carries a S&W 686 plus with 170gr Gold Dot Flat points.

It is very comfortable to carry a 1911 and crawl in and out of a truck, tractor or ATV. Cut wood whatever.

The comp is no problem what so ever. It has never cause a problem. Real world stuff here. Lots of it.

For whatever it might be worth, I agree with Gibby about the Rowland. There is not much need for that much power (and noise!) in a carry gun. I would not carry a .44 mag loaded to full power as a self defense gun, either, under most conditions.
The Rowland is for hunting. The shooting of .460 in my Springfield Mil Spec with the Clark kit does not seem to have bothered the pistol as yet, although one "cheap" holo sight was destroyed quickly. I do consider it a tribute to the 1911 that it appears to handle cartridges like the .460 and the 10mm that are far more "powerful" than it was actually designed for.

I am thinking about contacting Clark to set up the Delta with a comp. Delta elites are hard to find and are not cheap. It will increase the longevity of the gun because it lowers the pressure significantly at the barrel/slide disengagement. It will also give me a match quality barrel with more case support.

I am glad that it works for you. Lots of real world experience here as well. My preference is not going to be the same as others.

Gibby, I think that would be a good idea. I am "looking" at a Delta Elite now - although I've only seen pictures so far. I haven't seen many for sale in my general area, and this one is listed at $950.

Gibby,

I have shot a number of Rowlands both on Glocks and 1911's to me the amount of pressure which it develops I would rather go to a revolver if that sort of work is needed.

The 45 Super properly done as stated is more than a spring change it requires adjusting the lock time, no not as simple as dropping in a barrel/comp and spring but the ability to have the power when I want it rather than always having to shoot one specific round to me is ideal.

Now on abuse to gun, I can tell you the 460 has quite a bit more slide velocity hence why the 460 is only done with a comp,and a helluva alot more pressure. If you ever shoot this conversion on a glock you would wonder how you didn't just eat the slide!
The super is all I would want in the 1911 platform.

$950.00 is not bad if it in good shape. It's a Colt. They hold there value well. I know you are aware of the tricks to make the Delta run good and last. I love ours.

I see your point. Eliminate the low power 45 loads and balance out the spring for the Super. But you are still disengaging the slide at high pressures. Even with the other tricks. The slide velocity is higher on the Super than the 460.

My point is:
Barrel/slide disengagement at apprx. 45 +P pressures.
20# spring (low slide velocity)
Ejects 4-5 feet.
That is what a well design comp does. It would help on the Super also.

As far as using a Revolver. I have many. A whole Bunch of them. from 22lr to 500 S&W. Close to 60 Revolvers.
We are NOT talking about revolvers.

I am talking about a gun that is compact and weighs 39 oz. that can shoot 7 or 8 rounds equal to a .41 mag with the ability to reload another 7 rounds quickly. Hell, I can shoot the comped 460 faster than a 45 ACP. Be surrounded by a bunch of wild sows and piglets and you will know what I am talking about.

I guarantee I can get off a full mag of 460 ACCURATELY ,again ACCURATELY, before I can get off 3 in my 57's or 29's.

If you really have shot the 460, you would know what I am talking about. Simple as that.

Now. I do not load the 460 to the max. I load in the same range as Wilson combat does with their ammo. That is plenty for what I use the 460 for. It is not for every occasion. It is easier on the gun than a Super is.

The Super is a good round. The 460 and the comp system is better. That's why it was developed because of all the problems with the 45 Super in a 1911.

Changing lock time? I covered that.

The 460 slide velocity is higher then a 45 super it is a fact, Its why the setup can only be done with a comp and a 24 pound spring.

You mention you don't load the 460 to its max which in essence you are loading to 45 Super territory. Why would I want a comp if it can be eliminated?

My point is I believe the 460 is too much in a 1911, so I would prefer a properly timed 1911 which can shoot acp and supers interchangeably. There is no problem with the 45 Super guns if they are properly timed and fitted.

Did you damage your 1911 with the 45 supers?

As for better this is personal,I don't like comps on field carry guns it that simply, same reason I prefer short barrel revolvers

No I did not damage my 1911 with the Super. I did not have to. I figure it out real quick. When your running a 26# recoil spring and still kicking cases out to the next county even with using a square bottom firing pin stop and running a 25# main spring. It does not take much of that to figure out what it is doing to the gun.

The 1911 is good with .45 ACP and +P's.

With the design using a comp. The 460 is operating the action at around +P Pressures. (out of battery)

The Super is operating the action at well above the +P pressures.(out of battery)

I do not know how to explain it any other way.

A 1 1/2" comp does not get in my way at all working on the farm all day long. Doing a lot more activities than walking around.

I own a 460.
I own 33 1911's
I work with my guns on my hip on the farm. A lot.
I know what I need if I am ever surprised again by those hogs.

Real world stuff here. No Pretending.

Fact: The slide velocity is Higher on the Super than on a comped 460.

I'd really love to learn how he did that.

Unless you go to a ramped barrel, the case support will be the same.