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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
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I see what you're saying, but if you shoot well then you're going you're going to regardless of rifle weight. Been said before, "I would have made that shot it my rifle were 2#s heavier" not really..... Disagreed. Add a high heart rate from climbing a mountain with a lightweight rifle, and you have a recipe for a miss. Light centerfire rifles require a heavy hold, which isn't great for accurate fire. Also, many factory lightweight rifles don't balance particularly well, which makes accurate fire from field positions really tough. A 6.5 lb. rifle setup is simply tougher to shoot well from field positions than a 8 lb. setup. I've pretty well abandoned the sub-7 lb. all up rifles for just this reason. +1
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Joined: Oct 2007
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I have a 8 1/2 lb BDL in 270, a 7 1/2 lb XCR II in 375 Weatherby and an 11.25 500 Jeffery (all weights are with scope unloaded). When I'm shooting well, I shoot them all well, when I'm not (if I haven't been out in awhile) I suck with all of them. Don't see a difference, when you're out of breath at 11,500 feet it's hard to shoot anything ... so the better shape you're in the better you'll shoot, or wait a few seconds to let your heart rate slow down.
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Ghost And The Darkness
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Campfire Regular
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The one problem I've had with featherweight rifles is that pencil thin barrel heats up fairly rapidly while trying to work up loads. If you don't wait a bit between 3-5 shot strings you can look for stringing of your shots. Is there a witness in the house today?
Kids are for people that can't have dogs
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Taking into consideration a barrel heating up effecting groups, and that lighter rifles do transfer any body movement more easily, I was just exploring the idea that our anticipation of recoil and how well we can deal with it, may be the greatest factor in shooting light rifles well. It would therefore be reasonable to assume that the less recoil the better we may be able to shoot. I was just wondering who believes or would admit that more felt recoil from light rifles is a huge factor in accuracy.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 461
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2007
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Taking into consideration a barrel heating up effecting groups, and that lighter rifles do transfer any body movement more easily, I was just exploring the idea that our anticipation of recoil and how well we can deal with it, may be the greatest factor in shooting light rifles well. It would therefore be reasonable to assume that the less recoil the better we may be able to shoot. I was just wondering who believes or would admit that more felt recoil from light rifles is a huge factor in accuracy. I found my accuracy with a kimber 7mm08 shooting 120 much better at 200 yards than a 30-06 Montana shooting 180's. I guess I'm admitting something there.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,884 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,884 Likes: 10 |
It's just easier for me not having to set up to manage recoil on top of concentrating on sight picture and trigger squeeze.
A little while back I was shooting a standard weight 30-06 with a hard butt plate. It didn't beat me up at all since I held it firmly, it couldn't hit me, but only shove me. But it was still fatiguing to shoot twenty because of the additional concentration required.
In contrast, my "baby chunk" 20" barrel 308 Win., which goes nine pounds or a bit more depending on scope and mounts, is a pleasure to shoot all afternoon.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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To me, it seems like it's all about balance. A neutral balance is easiest to shoot offhand for me, and many light rifles aren't balanced.
If they are, I've had no trouble shooting them.
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I have never had problems with packing a 8lb gun in the mountains. And it sure is nice to have a steady rifle when you actually need it. I actually have a Rem 700 in 300 win mag in a Edge with a 23" tube and its around 7.5 all up. I would certainly not go much lower.
Last edited by BWalker; 03/22/14.
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My favorite hunting rigs are 6-3/4 to 7 lbs scoped. Balance is where it is at for me. An ass-heavy lightweight rifle sucks. Burning powder and spending time with a gun means a lot. Light rifles aren't for everyone either. Its like turkey hunting Takes a little more patience and work.
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Balance/fit matter the mostest. Absolutely!! If it aint balanced right and aint comfortable to the shoulder you wont shoot it good.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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In practice I think it takes a bit more muscle tension to settle down a lightweight rifle(lets use a Kimber Montana as a standard). I can use a looser hold without muscling the rifle so much with a M70 or 700 weighing 7.5 or so.
But mostly I think that shooting the lighter rifles is a question of practicing with them. I'd also draw the line in chamberings at standard cases, either long or short action,and for anything in the 6 pound range I'd draw the line at the 270 or 280,280AI,30/06 etc.
I'd like something a bit heavier as a varmint rifle but assume we are talking BG animals here...see no reason a 6.5 pound rifle should not be field worth on anything out to 400 yards or so....maybe further but the furthest I have shot a Rem 700 ti was 400 yards and it worked great.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Balance/fit matter the mostest. This On a general purpose hunting rifle I think of heavy rifles like training wheels on a bicycle. Both help hold things steady for inexperienced shooters/riders. Shooting a lighter rifle does require more skill, but once mastered no one wants to go back to a heavy rifle anymore than they want to put the training wheels back on their bicycle. At least for general shooting. I understand the need for heavy rifles for extreme precision or extreme long range shooting. But in all honesty the difference between a 6 lb rifle and a 12 lb rifle is going to be about .1-.2MOA with me pulling the trigger. That might matter to a 1000 yard target shooter, not a deer hunter. The balance and fit are more important.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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The rifle starts moving as soon as the firing pin falls and any variation in how the rifle moves in recoil will affect point of impact. A lighter rifle is harder to control as it moves in recoil so in general the groups will be larger or it'll be harder to hold your point of impact closer to point of aim.
I've found that with my lighter rifles with a bit of recoil I get better (more consistent) results if I hold the forend pretty firmly in my left hand and rest the back of my hand on the bag. Even then I have to really concentrate on trying to use the same grip, same rearward pull, etc. for every shot. Consistency in hold is the key. Yup. I found this, as well as a bit tighter grip on things, to be very true when shooting the .308 Rem Ti. (5.25 lb. bare) Holding groups from "inchish" to "half inchish" took some work & quite a bit more concentration than other rifles that are just a pound or two heavier. Of course the practice with the lightweight helped with shooting other heavier rifles, too. Just not quite as much. A lighter trigger helped more on a lightweight rifle too, IMO.
"The Bigger the Government, the Smaller the Citizen" - Dennis Prager LINK
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Here's 3 shots at 100 with a 6 pound rifle, all up. I'm good with it and have some heavier that I can't do as well with because the weight is in the wrong place. What? I consider that pretty good.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I don't think that my eyes can see better than that at 100 yards. Nice shooting Scott...
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
Turdlike, by default.
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Here's 3 shots at 100 with a 6 pound rifle, all up. I'm good with it and have some heavier that I can't do as well with because the weight is in the wrong place. What? I consider that pretty good. Dead deer out to 200 yards.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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Imagine what it could do with a scope and from a bench.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
Kitch,
If your only experience with lightweight rifles is "pencil thin barrels" then you've been somewhere else during the past 25 years. The trend has been to lighter actions and stocks, so standard-weight barrels can be used.
That said, I went through a phase of superlight rifles myself, the lightest a 7x57 that went 6 pounds with scope, loaded magazine and sling. I still hunt with several light rifles, but the lightest is around 6-1/2 all up. Any can be shot repeatedly until the barrel is too hot to touch comfortably and the bullets keep landing in the same place.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Kitch,
If your only experience with lightweight rifles is "pencil thin barrels" then you've been somewhere else during the past 25 years. The trend has been to lighter actions and stocks, so standard-weight barrels can be used.
That said, I went through a phase of superlight rifles myself, the lightest a 7x57 that went 6 pounds with scope, loaded magazine and sling. I still hunt with several light rifles, but the lightest is around 6-1/2 all up. Any can be shot repeatedly until the barrel is too hot to touch comfortably and the bullets keep landing in the same place. I would love to hear the details, action, barrel, stock, etc.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
Every New Ultra Light Arms rifle I've fired has been able to do it.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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