Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 80% Lower sales; ATF intends to raid CA store???

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-former-marine-and-ceo-is-not-complying/

I am not up on all the jargon. This fellow is in a bit of a pickle selling plastic lowers. What is an 80% lower? If you buy and machine one do you have to serialize it yourself and register it?

I stopped by that guy's store in Oceanside yesterday afternoon at 4pm and he was closed for the day. A guy there called one of the employees and they were told to close early.

CA law currently allows one to purchase an 80% AR receiver, complete the 20% milling operation required to make a functional receiver and then build a CA compliant AR from that receiver. No registration is required and no serial number is required although they recommend one. The problem lies in just what an 80% receiver is. Usually that means you have to mill the fire control pocket and drill holes for the hammer and trigger pins as well as for the safety. You must do it yourself and you cannot sell the completed firearm. In CA it must not have a detachable magazine or must require a tool to remove the magazine (bullet button). The seller must have a letter on file with ATF agreeing that what they are selling is only 80% machined. It sounds like these polymer ones had indented areas showing where to drill holes. That would be a more than 80% receiver and ATF would require an FFL to do a background check and DROS on it. The owner said he would give up inventory but not the customer names. Will be interesting to see what happens. Not that I care, I don't have any of these evil black guns.....

NoCAL

They raided his store today and took all the names of purchasers.

I have a few questions,

1. Did the store owner have a FFL?, if not where did he buy them?

2. If he believed the lowers to be 80% and not requiring a FFL and a NIC's check, why would he log the customers names?

Interesting to see what I've read says you have to drill the holes yourself also.... but a detent or mark is NOT a hole. At least in my mind, you still have to drill.

WTF is the difference really.... put it where its marked or buy a jig. Either would be easy, the jig actually easier....

its not about what makes sense its about control over those trying to follow the rules that those in charge have decided they dont like....now that more people are willing to go through the effort of messing with 80% receivers over 5 years ago the masters must show who is really in charge

He bought them from the mfg - who also got raided.


Shipping, marketing and credit card trans.

Well said rattler!

Coyote,
Many of these retailers do the initial milling from billet aluminum to produce the 80% lower. Others purchase forged ones that require some milling to get them to 80%. No FFL is required, they are essentially considered paperweights by ATF.

NoCAL

So if they were 80% why the raid? What am I missing? Sounds like Dirty Holder and Obama are at it again. Good for the owner that told them to pound sand.

Because ATF does not understand how injection molding works and ignored the information they were provided.

ATF claims the lowers were manufactured as firearms and then had the fire control area filled in. In actuality the fire control area is the core and is manufactured first and the receiver molded around it.

By claiming the core is added after the injection molding is done they determined a firearm was manufactured and then turned into an 80% lower.

Never let the facts interfere with an agenda. Never let the courts limit your activities. By claiming the raid was part of a criminal investigation they got the judge to modify the restraining order.

One issue with the over-molding of glass filled nylon over styrene or propylene is the melt temp difference.

I could remove the white (1st shot) without any tooling

Still have to drill the holes

This is Police State terror at its worst.

If you watch a few video's on the milling operation taking these from "80%" lowers to working lowers, you will see when the milling gets close to finished, the plastic filler in the lower actually separates and only needs to be dug out to finish the operation. The filler and the lower are 2 separate pieces. This according to the ATF is not an 80% lower and while I hate to see all this happen I somewhat agree with them. It pushes the limits of the 80% rule to the very edge and may or may not go past it.

The real problem I have with all this and several other instances with the ATF is they approve something for sale to the public and then come back later and say it's illegal. What's up with that? These 80% polymer lowers, bumpfire stocks with springs, certain Sten gun receiver kits and streetsweepers are just a few examples. If it was illegal it should have never been approved for sale to begin with!

There was a gunsmith/friend of mine that lived in the next town over from me about 20 yrs ago that bought a Sten gun parts kit and 80% receiver from a Gun Digest ad. He started on the project, didn't like how it turned out and discarded the receiver. About a year later the ATF showed up at his front door and explained the receivers didn't meet some sort of rule and they needed to confiscate it. They were very nice at first until he explained that he didn't own it anymore and it was somewhere in the city dump. They threatened and harassed that man for the next 6 months!

For the record, I sold all of mine at a gun show to unknown persons.

Does an 80% upper require a FFL transfer?

No.....it has no serial number

Then there should be no customer records, I mean unless someone paid with a CC, which would defeat the purpose of owning one...

you could buy them on Amazon too......