Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Newton cartridges...

My Qual-Cart 30 newton brass is .5283 at the base, my 375 Ruger brass is .5295. My Newton chamber is .5305 so it would go fine. I think reforming the 375 to 30 newton in one pass would take some effort but should be do-able in a compound leverage press. The die would support the sidewalls well enough to prevent buckling.
Performancewise, I suspect the Newtons will perform about the same as the two Norma cartridges. The 30 should drive 180's to a bit over 3000 fps at reasonable pressures while the 35 is going to push 2800 with 250's.
Realistically, the 40 Newton is going to be close to the same as a 416 Taylor. I think that means 300's are going to make 2650 or so at reasonable pressures.
The Newton cartridges are unique mostly because of when they were designed. I suspect they were not widely adopted because Newton was a bit of a dink. He was, after all, a lawyer! GD

Greydog, how is the QC brass. I am on the hunt for 35 Newton brass now, so it would be nice to know if it was decent stuff. Good to know you think the 375 Ruger stuff would work as well. I guess it couldn't hurt to try?

No question the 375 Ruger brass would be cheaper and it should be no real problem to size to 35 in one pass. The Q-C brass looks pretty decent although, at three bucks apiece, it should almost stand up and dance! The headspace measure ment is about 80% bang on with the others being about .007" short (measured to the datum line). I'm going to try and see if one can't get some kind of a price break for a significant quantity. GD

Grey dog,
I'm not going to argue with success. I was told by Hornady that 0.050" was the most you could do with a single draw. Changing shoulders, necks, and body tapers, from 375, down to 308, is quite a big load on you, if not your press. I would think an intermediate forming die would be a good idea. Say going down from 375 std. to .323, and then down to the std. 308. It all depends on how close Ruger skated to the old Newton's tapers. But the new Ruger is a modern case design. I don't like it, but it holds a lot of powder for it's size. I haven't had to neck ream, and I came all the way down to the .323 bore, from the Basic Brass.

I agree and think it would be easier to go to 35 then to 30, assuming one has the dies. I have sized 375 H&H down to 308 Norma and run it through a 358 Norma die first to do this. The 375 brass isn't well supported by the die and one has to be careful so as to avoid buckling the case at the shoulder. You wouldn't have this problem in taking the 375 Ruger down to the Newton. GD

Greydog, thank you for the intel. That is great to hear and also to have some more options. I would think 150-200 cases would last me just about forever though.

Grey Dog,
Comparing drawing down a 375H&H to drawing down the 375 Ruger is like comparing apples and oranges. I actually did have to make my very first Boer 8mm Mag. cases out of trimmed 375 H&H virgin Remington cases. And yes they did bulge out ahead of their belts. But Hornady still used them to make what has become three sets of dies. Using my home brewed case formers, I simply could not get the extra tough brass in the Rugers to cooperate.

Furthermore, if you go down the custom case forming path, I would recommend that you use two dies. And the first would be to put only the Newton's body taper in. Then with the body fully supported in the second die, you can do the shoulders and necks.

In your 38 down to 30, I'd ask the die grinder to put the faux 9mm shoulder and file trim top, into the die which does the taper. You do have to hold the neck fast, in order to hack saw or file it. I think you will find that this case will "squirt" up, rather than thicken. A couple of cases out of a box of fifty, will be so brittle, that they won't "squirt", but only collapse, and ruin the necks. I've been losing a couple of these "ring a dings", out of every box of fifty.

By the time you realize they need annealing, it's too late. All of these cases are so tough, that I am already putting about as much mojo into the press handle as I can. I don't want these brittle cases, anyway, so I finish telescoping the necks. They don't crush downwards, but rather snap and double up, horizontally. Good riddance! It's this lack of ductility, which lets Hornady load the Rugers to such high pressures, IMO.

I think that the "ductility issue" is the primary problem with Winchester/Olin WSSM brass, making it "unfriendly" to reload when compared to the thinner and much "friendlier" Federal WSSM brass.

Jeff

Having used 375 Ruger cases to form 35 Newton cases, it is pretty easy. Quick pass through a 35 Newton sizer die then some trimming.. Not too bad really. Actually don't mind a bit and the 375 Ruger brass is pretty darned thick. Should work out well.

Scotty, did you need to turn the necks?

No sir. I don't believe there was a need.. We shall see soon enough, but I don't think 375 to 358 is too awfully much.. Just got the Talley's and scope mounted. Should get it out pretty quick..

I've tried once fired then annealled 375 Ruger brass for 30 Newton. After 5 out of 5 shoulder collapes, I stopped. I can neck down in a forming die set fine. The problem comes when I try to push the Ruger shoulder back for the Newton.
The 8x68S brass worked w/ one pass, then trim. Not the cheapest brass in the world though.

Hmm, might have to give it a try. My problem is I would like an 8x68S one day, so having that brass kicking around would be dangerous.

got all the parts and reamer to build a 30 on an hva action. all I need is time now..

Looks like the 26 Nosler is going to use the 375 Ruger case. If this is true then I'll wait and get this brass. Necking up should be easier than necking 8x68S down.

Probably already known but jamison is back making cases.Newton is among those being made with proper head stamp

I saw that. Still am necking down 375 Ruger brass for now and trimming. Doesn't take too much time and the Hornady brass seems to work decently. Might grab some of the Jamison stuff in the future though.

A Gentleman named Tom, from Cody, Wyo. has made up several Newtons. He has done a 416 wildcat Newton, and a 450 pseudo Newton. We traded fired cases, and my 10.6 x 375 Ruger has exactly the same capacity as his does. Mine is a sloping job, 2.6 inches long, with a half inch long neck. His is the classic 23 deg. shouldered 2.5 inch long Newton case.

I was trying to copy the 8 x 68 Schuler, using the common Ruger case. Then my G.S. did a 2 R chamber in a 416. One tenth of an inch longer neck, equals his Newton's modern body taper and my 16 deg. shoulders, against his 23 degree ones.

F.W.I.W. My 8mm Mag forming die set now has five dies. From the cylindrical Basic brass, I get, a .450, a file trim die, which only puts in my body taper, a .400 die, a .350 die, and finally, my 8mm Mag F.L. die. These 0.050" step downs are the limit to which Hornady would grind my custom die steps. The file trim, taper only die is a later improvement.

So I have Stage 1, stage 1.5, Stage 2, Stage 3, and my 8mm F.L. sizing die ( Stage 4). My 10.6mm x 375 Ruger, uses a 375 Ruger virgin case, for its parent. I can use my new F.L. sizing die to iron in my gentle shoulders, while expanding the necks from 38 to 41.

I do this forming in one plunge, and I barely have to kiss the resultant case mouths with a power case trimmer. I only have about 2 grains more than the Taylor, but then so does Tom's 416 Newton Wildcat. The 416 Ruger, and the 416 Remington, both have more capacity than the 416 Taylors or 40 Newtons. But both factories are holding their 416 caliber D.G. cartridges, back to 2400 FPS, with 400 gr. bullets.

IMO, John Rigby & Co. got it right, back in 1912, when they introduced the 416 Rigby, shooting 400 gr. bullets, right at this same 2400 fps. I can't form my wildcat cases in my Lyman 416 Rigby reloading die set, trimmed back 0.300". But I can reload them with either that set, or my own custom Hornady wildcat F.L. dies. And right down to the bullet crimps, I can't tell these reloads apart.

My local club's chrono went bonkers, when I shot my first 400 gr. bullets across its sky screens. So weather permitting, I'll take my own chrono, on the next trip out to the range. If I can reach close to 2400 fps, with 410 gr. Solids, I'll call it good, for my Express rifle developments. 2400 fps, is also just right for maximum penetration using the lighter Speer 350 gr. Mag. Tips.

Looking back, I think Ruger should have designed my half inch long necks into their 416 Ruger. With less body taper and sharper shoulders, they could have realized right at 97 grs. of H2O, to their case mouths. Tom's 416 Newton Wildcat case, with a longer neck, gives the same 97 grs. of H2O, if it is 2.6 inches long. But then it would be awfully close to the 416 Remington, and the 400 H&H. But the standard length magazines would also have to be extended to 3.5 inches, just like mine was.

Tom reported that he is getting 458 Lott velocities, with his 450 Newton wildcat. And he uses a standard length action for this 'boomer'. My 450 is designed to be minus 0.030" from the length of the 458 Win. Mag., in order to keep those under nourished puppies out of my chamber.

Short chambered barrels are shipped at minus 0.050", so a cheap replacement Adams and Bennett, short chambered 458 Win Mag. Barrel is all I will need, to make this one up on a Mauser M-98 action. The only difference between Tom's rifle and my Stage 1 forming die, is that he uses Newton's 23 degree shoulder, and I use my own 26 degree shoulder. But please note that both of these 450 wildcats have to be made from the cylindrical 375 Ruger Basic Brass, as they have less body taper than either of the Ruger factory rounds.

My 450 Magnum dummies will feed O.K. when using round nosed bullets. But my Mausers don't like some of the 45-70 Flat Pointed slugs, made for tubular magazines, in the newer lever actions. I feel that the 350 gr. Hornady R.N.'s will be cold blooded murder in this 450 pseudo-Newton. I can't see making this rifle any heavier than ten lbs.

2014 will be my year to return to Sturgis, S.D., for my third time. The RSA "UHURU" threat should play out, one way or another, by 2016. If they aren't in a Civil War, by then, I'll head back over for my second African Safari. But I'll be sixty nine years too old, to be carrying some 14 lb. cannon around.

I don't think that the Newton rifle has ever been made, which requires that much avoirdupois. They have always been sub magnums, used in standard length Twentieth Century military bolt action designs. Maybe this is still their best attribute, after their first century.

Thank you Indy. That's awesome information.

Indy, can you PM me Tom's contact #'s. I am 40 mi N of Cody and would like to visit w/ him.