|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
just giving the fellow the best advice I can offer to him. I still shoot sidelocks with PRB. If cost is an issue, get a sidelock with real black powder and patched ball.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,215 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,215 Likes: 13 |
For Christ sakes, you guys ways are not the only way.
I never said my way was the only way. That's what a forum like this is for. A guy asks for advice, different people give him different advice, and then he has a range of opinions and can make up his own mind.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,108 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,108 Likes: 5 |
Smoke. Not directed at you by any means. You gave a polite, reasonable reply
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 830
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 830 |
Or you could compromise and use BH 209 with cheap bullets until you get the hang of it. I think BH 209 is worth the extra cost because I can go out and shoot a session at the range in less time and enjoy it more when I don't have to swab 4 times between each shot (spit patch both sides followed by dry patch both sides). However, no sense in buying expensive bullets until you learn the ropes on how to shoot. Once you are comfortable with the process, buy several better bullets and try and find a hunting load.
Venor ergo sum
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 233
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 233 |
Thanks to all of you for the advice. I had never heard of any of these products so this is a huge head start. If I try Thor bullets, what's the procedure for choosing which diameter I need?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
email for a sizing kit, start with the smallest .500" diameter, load it to see how the pressure is, put it to the side, get the .501" and try it as well, if its super tight, stop and push out the muzzle end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDmFUckyCUI
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 533
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 533 |
Please reread my post. I advised to use cheaper components until the guy had a feel for what he was doing. No one said a damn word about gas, cost of tags, losing overtime, shots that counts and on and on and on.
Every time someone suggest that there might be other avenues than 209,you guys act like someone is pulling on superman's cape
A fellow can easily burn up a pound of powder in the initial stages of leaning ML. Also, it gives guy a chance to figure out all the ins and outs of cleaning, what happens when you don't etc.I typically burn a pound of black powder in practice every year before ML season and use cheap maxi-balls I cast myself doing so.
Not everyone is so rich that they have more money than they know what to do with and some are just too lazy to run a patch down the barrel between shots at the range.
With my rifle I can shoot a 2nd shot when needed hunting with out a swab. I have yet to find that I that need three shots to kill something. If someone does, they need to take up center fire hunting with maybe a semi auto rifle
And I don't drive a $65,000 truck. I change oil myself and my truck is a 1998.
For Christ sakes, you guys ways are not the only way.
I only gave him advise from what I've learned, my experiences, and not being prepared when I should have been. There are a lot of factors out there and I'm sure the OP will learn as he goes with plenty of great information from everyone including yourself. Never said there wasn't any other way. In no way did I put salt under your saddle or insult ones finances, so don't assume everyone is convoluted.
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 195
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 195 |
I'm going to add this ... Once somebody selects a ML there's enough knowledge here regarding loads that shoot well, in that model ML, that experimenting to find a good load is greatly reduced or may not be needed. When I bought my TC Omega I researched loads, settled on one, and shot great from the git go. After sighting it in it was ready to hunt. That didn't stop me from experimenting though. FH � I haven�t ML hunted in several years, but when I did I used a TC Hawken with maxi-balls. Now that I am older�the old TC is too heavy for me to pack around in the mountains��so I picked up a TC Omega from a friend and plan on using it this fall. Suggestions on loads for it to start with from your experience? Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,215 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,215 Likes: 13 |
A 348 grain Powerbelt ahead of 80-90 grains BH209 works well in my TC in-lines.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 195
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 195 |
Thanks Smokepole. I'll get out and give it a try this weekend if this dang winds slows down!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 233
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 233 |
Range report and questions:
I followed advice here and got a CVA Accura V2, and ordered the modified breach plug that CVA recommends for use with BH209. Using Remington 209 primers (all that was available locally), I have had a few failures to fire with 209, and a couple of instances when it fired but late/weak. I swapped out the plug for the stock one and tried pyrodex 50/50 pellets instead, which worked fine, though dirtier of course. Questions: Does BH want a different primer, and if so which brand? Also, if I use powdered Pyrodex or 777, which plug should I use? The "BH209" plug has a roughly 3/4" deep cone shaped recess in it, whereas the standard plug has a flat face. The CVA website claims that the BH209 plug should be used with any granulated powder, but given the ignition issues I encountered I wondered what others' experience have been.
Very happy with the rifle overall. It's accurate, and the trigger is great for an off-the-shelf gun.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
BH209 requires a magnum prime for reliable ignition. Western Powder recommends either a CCI209M or a Federal 209A. WW209 standard shotshell primers (not the WW 777) are right behind CCI and Federal primers in brisance (how much spark). Standard Remington primers fall well below the three mentioned and are probably the cause of your ignition problems. Reliable ignition with BH209 without using a magnum primer is a known problem. WW 209 primers run a tad long/big which can be a good thing or not. They can be difficult to close with a tight breech or can fill a loose breech and prevent excessive blow-by. WW209 primers are what I've found works best in my TC to prevent excessive blow-by. FWIW, WW uses their standard primer in all of their shotgun shells including magnum loads. My TC Omega has a stock recessed breech plug which can shoot either pellets or loose. As far as recessed breech plugs and using pellets that's something I've been wondering about. It seems that maybe recessed plugs will shoot either loose or pellets but flat faced plugs will only ignite pellets ... reliably. I don't know though. It's a WAG on my part. In case you're wondering I spent a lot of time researching shotgun shell primers on shotgun shell reloading forums. They had all the skinny on primers.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,215 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,215 Likes: 13 |
I've always used standard Winchester 209 primers, never had a problem in the Triumph.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
I've had problems with remington hang firing with center fire ammo. Try the winchester W209, CCI 209 Magnum, Regular CCI, Federal 209a primers. Also order a small bag of these. Drop one into the primer pocket and go shoot. http://www.mcmaster.com/#9262k611/=u1go0j
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947 |
Are those Remington primers the KleanBore or STS?
The STS might work but the KleanBore are made for Triple7 and are too weak.
Win209s work good if the breach plug design is also good. Otherwise use the Fed209A or CCI209M. Ive heard other CVA owners had good luck with Fiochii 209s in that plug.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 233
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 233 |
I was using KleanBore. The only other kind they had on the shelves were the Winchester 777. I will look for the regular Win209s, CCI, or Fed. Thanks for the advice. BTW had good range results with Hornady FPB bullets.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,251 |
yep both of those primers suck for BH209.
Find some cci ,federal 209a or the winchester w209.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 947 |
Ditto. DO NOT use Kleenbore primers with BH209. That IS your problem.
If you cant find normal or mag USA made 209s, try the Cheddite, Fiochii or NOBELs. Ive read especially good reviews of the Fiochii 209 in the CVA plugs. I know they fit in my 2 older CVAs i had and worked well in a modded plug.
Last edited by Overkill45; 10/07/14.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 233
Campfire Member
|
OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 233 |
Thanks y'all, I will shop for some appropriate primers.
Even with a few newbie mistakes and wrinkles, shooting a muzzle loader is serious fun!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,551
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,551 |
Not only do you need a magnum primer, you must also keep the primer channel clean. There is a lot of carbon buildup that has to be removed. I also use a rubber o-ring to make sure there is no blowback. Not only will primer blowback make it harder to ignite BH 209, but it can get into the action and gum up and rust up the works. Of course the gumming up and rusting up happen with 777 and Pyrodex too. The Accura has a shim kit available that allows you to get a snug fit with your primers.
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,845
Posts18,517,392
Members74,020
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|