Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Fishing gun for AK

357 mag with as stout of fmj loads you can find.

I used to carry a model 29 mountain gun 44mag. I was a fly-out flyfishing guide in Bristol Bay. Back then guns were illegal in Katmai National Park but we took them anyway. Outside the park we wore them holstered on our wader belt. I used 300 grain, overloaded fmj's made by Arctic Ammo. They were like firing a hand grenade. Only fired a couple of times at a can. Missed both times and declared myself armed for bear. I only pulled that gun once and it was on a cow moose with a calf. I had a couple of bluff charges and almost stepped on a sow with two tiny cubs laying on her back. She was totally camouflaged in the grass. Probably was within 50 yards of 500 coastal brown bears. Had one incident when I did not have a gun where I would have drawn it and might have needed it. Had a backpack full of salmon and a young scraggly, possibly starving, bear gave me and my clients trouble for about 20 minutes. Would have been an ideal time for pepper spray. A 44mag likely would not stop a charging bear without a very lucky shot. Brown bears do not want to mess with you. The one exception to this is if you are so unlucky as to get close to a buried kill that a bear is guarding. This is what gets people killed. Fishing bears are so full of fish that they usually are too fat to kill a moose or caribou. I would not want to go fishing with a shotgun slung over my shoulder.

I have been piloting rafts 2-3 times a summer for church groups for 11 years. It's strictly a volunteer effort on the part of several members of the ministry program. I am one of the volunteer staff who carries during the trip. While I will concede the power and accuracy of a rifle or shotgun over a handgun, neither are as convenient. I carry a 4" Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt loaded with 300 grain hard cast bullets going about 1150 fps. It is very shootable and accurate and always on my hip. If I was carrying a rifle I'm afraid it would end up leaning against a tree out of reach when I needed it.

I also carry bear spray. In my eleven years we have have never had a bad bear encounter but we preach common sense from the start of the trips, secure our food wisely and have the advantage of a large group. That may or may not be a deterrent but I tend to believe it is a bit of a discouragement for most bears.

I might consider bringing my Ruger Deerstalker with 265 grain Hornady flat points. It's one of the lightest and handiest of all the little powerhouse carbines and would spit out five rather ill tempered pills in short order. It still wouldn't be all that handy in camp where we are cooking and setting up camp for the groups. It still would end up leaning somewhere out of reach during those times. I'd still keep the 45 on my hip.

For your situation I'd go with which ever one is the easiest to handle and get into action, the one you are most comfortable with. And carry some bear spray as an adjunct to your firearm.

Mart

As I stated earlier your chance of having a bear incident is < 1%. Over the years in Alaska I've had a few incidents with bears but never have had to shoot one. I have talked to several and listened to the stories of probably 20 people who have shot a brown bear IDLP. I personally know a few of those. It does happen. The bullet is the critical element in these shootings. I would never use a FMJ, with brown bears I would only use heavy hard casts. From what I know of BC I suspect you have a bigger chance of having to shoot a bear. I am a firm believer in heavier calibers 44 Mag or 45 Colt, 454, 480 etc and heavier bullets that are going to break bones. In the lower 48 and with black bears I would use a hollow point 240 grain or heavier. There is a lot of misconception as to how these rounds actually perform. I strongly encourage you to read the following: http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

A barrel shorter than 18" is legal if the barrel is factory installed, and the firearm is not semi-automatic. Shortened to less than 18" is not legal.

Makes perfect sense, right?
Ted

I get the point that the average person is never likely to have a bear encounter go bad, even sharing a fish stream with them. By that same reasoning the average person does not really know what they are recommending will do in the real world. To be honest with no disrespect intended I don't place a lot of store in what the so called experts have written. I have spent48 years of my life living and working in close proximity to bears on an almost daily basis either on foot or a saddle horse. When I am trusting my life to something I do my own tests. Penetration, expansion and weight retention and as I stated before IMO and the opinion of a good number of the pros who work in bear country a hand gun for bear defence is like sex with a leaky condom. It gives a false sense of security while getting screwed. Sure a hot loaded 'big bore' hand gun is better than a knife. But If I am carrying an 'Oh crap" gun its going to be a 45-70 loaded up with 540 grains of cast 'train stoppers' I have seen and know what they can do when needed. That's what most of the guides I know carry with various heavy loaded ammo and that's what I'll continue to carry and recommend. What each individual decides is up to them as long as I'm not relying on them for backup. To each their own

If I was simply carrying a firearm that I hoped to never use I'd pack my Glock Model 20 in 10mm with 180gr XTP's loaded by Double Tap.

If I actually thought I'd need a firearm in a bear encounter I'd carry a Model Seven KS in 350RM.

I was bluff charged by a ~250 pound black bear once and the 350RM Model 600 in my hands felt like a toothpick and I didn't think I had much of a chance to get even one round into her. At the actual moment I realized she fully intended to charge me I found myself wishing for a bigger gun and a lot more time to prepare myself.

I pistol would have been next to worthless. I'm pretty proficient with them and I would have had little if any chance for any more than a quickly placed shot that would have likely done little more than piss her off further.

These days we have a lot of aggressive bears that haven't been hunted for generations here in Florida and our bear attacks are likely numbering a lot higher than Alaska bear attacks. Our bears are a heck of a lot smaller but it doesn't take a very big bear to make a mess of a human in a hurry. LOL

The piney woods of north Florida ain't as safe for the outdoorsman as they used to be.

Another comment. Although your brain and a healthy dose of common sense are your best tools around a bear I'd just as soon back that up with the most lethal firearm I could reasonably pack and actually have with me and readily available if/when a bear got offended at my presence.

With brown bears your brain counts for a lot. Black bears can really be unpredictable. I had one start climbing the tree I was in one time. Even my voice didn't scare it. I had to drop a water bottle on its head and it still wasn't too concerned. A black bear that doesn't run when it sees me worries me more than a browny that's ignoring me at close range. I won't take my eyes off of either though.

I shot a small (7 foot) brown bear with my 338 WM using 225 partitions a couple years ago while moose hunting. I kept shooting it every time it started to get back up. I ended up shooting it 5 times before it realized it was dead. Every one is different and you never know how it will turn out. I'd rather have a rifle, but if I'm fishing or hiking or something, I don't want to lug a rifle everywhere so the next best thing is hard cast lead at 1200 fps and hopefully a CNS shot.

I've run quite a variety of revolvers, rifles, and shotguns over the years. The single thing I know is that firepower in your hands or slung beats even more firepower 3 steps or 30 away. That is how I arrived at compact-carry type weapons and my consequent earlier recommendation. Can a revolver work? Certainly -and I have used one to good effect in a standoff with a threatening bear more than once. Is it the best thing? Probably not - at least not in my hands and it wasn't given as an option of preference by the OP anyway. What does work for me and have been put to use have been the 16-20" barreled long guns. I variously carry M94 Winchesters in 30-30 or 45 Colt, a 1895 45-70 a 358 Win, or 375-350 bolt guns, or a M870 pump slug gun. I've seen what even a "puny" 45 Colt carbine can do next to a 12 Brenneke. I'm okay with any of them.

That Rem pump Whelen is undoubtedly what I'd carry given the two options presented.

Okay, bottom line is that I rarely go anywhere remote within this state (Alaska) without my Whitworth .375 H&H slung over the top stub of my frame-pack. But, back in the day, we "techies" used to hose-clamp PVC to the sides of our frame-packs and then stuff plug-pulled Remington 870's down the plastic tube, when monitoring and/or categorizing anadromous fish streams on the Kenai and over on the Peninsula. Even still, common sense prevails when working around bears, rather than fire-power.

Dixie Slugs is currently down due to health issues per their website. DIXIE SLUGS website HERE But here's a pic of one of their products referenced above:

0.730 diameter 870grain heat treated hard cast. Advertised velocity of 3" 12ga factory load is 1200fps in a 20" rifled barrel. I calculated free recoil to be right at 54 lb in an 8 lb gun.


A bear hunter I ain't but I'd hate to be the bear that caught one of these. It would be jarring.

IMO, human predator types can "sense" if someone is a soft target..... And are more likely to attack them vs someone with good situational awareness and some level of fighting skills.

Do you think the same applies with bears? I understand that a handgun is not plan A if you are being charged..... My question is do you think a bear would be less likley to follow through with an attack if the person had the mind set of " I like my chances of getting at least one heavy cast .45 slug center mass hit into you before you get to me..... You may still eat me screaming and still alive..... But you are going to die eventually as well..... "?

Yes, I agree that predators "sense" soft targets. A nearly 60-year lifetime of trapping, hunting, killing, photographing and studying wolves has taught me that and inclusive of a nearly 60-year lifetime of being among and with brown/grizzly bears has taught me that, too.

However, my rather prolonged actual field experience only indicates that an apex predator is less likely to "test" a situation if only that situation seems "questionable". The operative words within that entire equation -- from a brown/grizzly bear's perspective -- is the relativity as to whether or not a "situation" is rewarded. Therefore, if an animal is not rewarded then its behavior is probably altered and with that respect for an animal, then common sense yet again prevails over occasional happenstance and just spontaneous likeliness. superfluous "trust" in firearms.

To answer the question in relation to what you have.... and like..

Without buying something that likely will never be used..

I'd be a bit happier with the 35 whelen, but given your bird hunting, and good slugs I'd take the shotgun and not be one bit worried. Keep it slung with you at all times.

And use your head.

We hunt AK quite often. Carry a 329PD because its easy. I'll be damned if I"ll carry one of those super mag pistols due to weight, if so, I'd carry a shotgun or rifle instead every time.
Carry a 30-30 or a 54 caplock often and I have yet to feel worried or in danger.

I'd carry a big can of spray on my wading belt too.

Beyond that, enjoy the shotgun on the bird hunts. Bird hunting and fishign in AK is fun.

Heck, I'd carry my 45acp without worrying either, just pick the ammo, and pay attention...

Brother Bear don't think like that...

A bear is a 1/2 ton killing machine that has been earning a living killing every thing that moves since it was 6 months old...anything it comes across will do just fine.

Fortunately, most of the time it's too busy killing other things to bother with you, but if your number comes up, you're going to want to have a 12 gauge with proven slugs or a rifle in your hands if you intend to be the one walking away.

You probably don't want a full size rifle. A cut-down short barrel, light weight rifle slung nose down over your weak shoulder is not an undue burden...considering.

I used to have a 20" 375HH Sako that was a great to carry hunting rig and did double duty as a back up...it almost worked out. As just a back-up it was a touch heavy even after I lightened it, but had I needed it, I would have blessed every extra ounce. There are rifles available today that weigh half as much, and I would be thinking small and smaller.

For a while now, I've had a 16" Rossi 92 in 45 Colt. It feels like it would fit right in your hip pocket but it carries in a belt scabbard...(I've used a leather machete sheath and I'm sure there are more elegant solutions), but loaded with 300 WFN Ruger type loads that rival a 45-70 it'll penetrate 3 feet plus of oak trunk...it's a surprising amount of power in a compact package.

I'd still carry the pepper spray, and a Glock 20, because I have one. A 45 RBH might logically appear to be a better match-up with the carbine, but I usually carry the Ruger on it's own with the same ammo.

I don't feel at all bad with just the Ruger, but it just doesn't compare to the carbine...that little 45 carbine is a slick little death wand, easy to hit with and not much heavier.

A 357 is just about a useless piece of weight to carry around unless you're ready to meet Allah and collect-up your virgins.(I really can't imagine what I'd do with 21 of those...training alone would take the rest of eternity...:)

But a souped-up 357 in a Rossi is a whole different ball-game...

The importance of the above, and getting a LOT of range time putting a carbine into action from the "African Carry" position, cannot be overemphasized.

Man, you got that right. Almost defeats the whole fun/purpose of even being here. I'm sure re-evaluating where I spend my time and input.

I have a Rossi Carbine in 480 Ruger that would probably work for that task.That and pepper spray.

That rule about the barrel shorter than 18" is ok if it came that way.Could you xplain that.Won't fly in the US will it?

The OP is going fishing, not Caribou hunting. The idea of fishing is to enjoy fishing. I have never shot a brown bear nor have I seen anyone shoot a brown bear. I have no idea what would work well or what wouldn't. Clearly a 460 Wby. would be more effective than a 44mag. This is not the point. Bad bear encounters typically happen due to surprise. I would think that you would not have enough time to get a rifle out of a pack scabbard anyway. If you are carrying it in a ready position, you are not fishing. You can see 10+ bears in a day on the stream in Bristol Bay. The guys I have seen that toted big guns on the stream were the more skittish types around bears. They did not end up going fishing much where there were bears. The flight in is infinitely more dangerous than sharing the stream with bears. Bristol Bay fishing guides, that are around Coastal Brown Bears every day, DO NOT carry rifles and shotguns. If I were camping in Bristol Bay, I might have a rifle or slug gun for the tent. For fishing, I would carry a big revolver.