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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
I.E.
F'd up whatcha dialed or wind.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,920 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,920 Likes: 2 |
I.E.
F'd up whatcha dialed or wind. No. More like flinched so phugging bad because the stupid magnum round they thought was needed for some mythical 500 yard shot that didn't materialize kicked them into next week.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571 |
Yep..... you go from a 150 at 2950 recoil, which apparently is roughly equivalent to a kitten sneezing on you.... to a 162 at 3k.... and all of a sudden it's unshootable. That's fuggin bull schitt....
If you can't shoot a seven... you can't shoot a .270 either. Especially considering the .270 virtues you extol of lighter/shorter barrels, and the fact that they increase felt recoil. I've never shot a .270 that I thought was a pussy-cat..... and I've never shot a 7 RM I thought was obnoxious.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,920 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,920 Likes: 2 |
For example, a couple years ago three hunters showed up in camp with 7 mags. Two of the three had issues putting a deer down. The next week, four hunters showed up shooting acceptable cartridges. All four had no problems. I've seen this repeated time and time again. Is the problem the shooter, not the round? Of course. But the round makes the shooter.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but I don't like chasing hurt animals. It's my job to send deer home with folks in the most ethical manner possible. When I see game wounded, it truly hurts me, because I live with and see these animals all year long. It's a hunter's job to take an animal in the most humane way possible, and repeatedly seeing these animals hurt and fleeing for the hills, often at the hands of Magnum shooters, simply pisses me off. The animal is worth more than that.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,920 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,920 Likes: 2 |
Yep..... you go from a 150 at 2950 recoil, which apparently is roughly equivalent to a kitten sneezing on you.... to a 162 at 3k.... and all of a sudden it's unshootable. That's fuggin bull schitt....
If you can't shoot a seven... you can't shoot a .270 either. Especially considering the .270 virtues you extol of lighter/shorter barrels, and the fact that they increase felt recoil. I've never shot a .270 that I thought was a pussy-cat..... and I've never shot a 7 RM I thought was obnoxious.
Wrong. I've seen it repeated a hundred times. Maybe more like a couple thousand. We used to run a couple hundred guys a year. I certainly wasn't in on all of those kills, but I saw the results hanging in camp at the end of the day. The animals that were shot to schit, missing various legs or with holes through the midsection were more often than not shot with the big guns. A good buddy who worked at the local meat shop, where they process several thousand animals a year, agrees with my assessment. He did an informal poll one year, and found similar results. I should get the meat shop boys to do a more formal poll as to what cartridges were used versus how much meat is wasted, and write it up. Would be an interesting insight.
Last edited by prairie_goat; 05/13/14.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571 |
So your 'evidence' is purely speculative?
No one has ever wounded a critter with a .243.... or a 6.5?
Saying there's some magical 'Shoot better recoil Mendoza line'..... is stupid. Everyone shoots better with less recoil in extended sessions. Also, most guys tend to [bleep] up bad when shooting at fur. Don't blame the cartridge choice for poor shooting..... blame poor shooting.
One shot at fur..... I can handle just about any level of recoil, and concentrate through it.... .243 or .375. Most folks can't keep it all together for the shot , and the recoil concern (flinching) is simply a piece to that puzzle. All of these poor shooters, would benefit greatly from a few times out with a .22lr.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571 |
And I've seen .270 shooting guys miss repeatedly in minor winds inside 300.... whilst guys running 7s pounded plates twice that far... same day/same time. Dude with the .270 lays down behind one of the sevens... and starts beating on plates.
What happened there..... by your line of reasoning.... their shooting should have gotten worse? Instead.... it improved. Impossible!!
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,214 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,214 Likes: 26 |
Actually, I do think there's a fairly consistent recoil line where most people can't shoot very well, and it's the .300 magnums. That's not my opinion, either, but that of a bunch of other people who've guided. Finn Aagaard said only about 1/3 of the folks who brought .300 magnums on the safari in Kenya could shoot well enough to consistently kill game, and I've heard other African PH's and North American outfitters put the line as low as 20% of .300 shooters. I've seen it myself numerous times.
The 7mm Remington Magnum approaches that line more closely than the .270. I've guided some (though not nearly as much as prairie goat) and far more people who absolutely couldn't shoot well were using 7mm Magnums, rather than cartridges like the .243, .25-06. 270 and .308.
And like prairie goat, I'd often prescribe some prairie dog shooting for those who proved they couldn't shoot their magnums, whether 7mm or .300. And sometimes they ended up using the prairie dog rifle to kill game instead.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,087
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,087 |
For example, a couple years ago three hunters showed up in camp with 7 mags. Two of the three had issues putting a deer down. The next week, four hunters showed up shooting acceptable cartridges. All four had no problems. I've seen this repeated time and time again. Is the problem the shooter, not the round? Of course. But the round makes the shooter. I think what happened with a good many magnums is that people who couldn't really shoot to begin with bought them because, for any number of reasons, they thought that was the way to go. Some, and this is probably the worst case scenario, thought "more power" could actually make up for bad shooting. In this respect I think magnums rather end up getting a bad rap. I've not looked it up but in similar weight rifles and bullet weights isn't the 7mmRM very close to a 30-06 as far as recoil?
If there's one thing I've become certain of it's that there's too much certainty in the world.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,893 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,893 Likes: 12 |
When asked "What kind of deer/pig rifle should I get?" I mostly answer "Get a 308 that appeals to you." I like to think I'm doing some good.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
When asked "What kind of deer/pig rifle should I get?" I mostly answer "Get a 308 that appeals to you." I like to think I'm doing some good. [bleep] people isn't doing anybody any "good." Well...sometimes it is. Maybe. But not typically. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
When asked "What kind of deer/pig rifle should I get?" I mostly answer "Get a 308 that appeals to you." I like to think I'm doing some good. [bleep] people isn't doing anybody any "good." Well...sometimes it is. Maybe. But not typically. Travis Damn you're dumb.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,893 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,893 Likes: 12 |
I don't think I'm screwing anybody.
A 243 or smaller would be a hard sell on the typical questioner, and they aren't likely to be interested in, or be able to take advantage of, the ballistic nuances offered by a 260 or 7mm-08. It's also kind of tough to screw up 308 accuracy, and there is an abundance of ammo available. Recoil is quite manageable, and a variety of rifles are available in 308 to fit physical considerations and taste.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Smart enough to use photobucket! And make a bolt action rifle shoot! Keep swingin' Green Beret! Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,995 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,995 Likes: 6 |
For example, a couple years ago three hunters showed up in camp with 7 mags. Two of the three had issues putting a deer down. The next week, four hunters showed up shooting acceptable cartridges. All four had no problems. I've seen this repeated time and time again. Is the problem the shooter, not the round? Of course. But the round makes the shooter.
Maybe I'm just jaded, but I don't like chasing hurt animals. It's my job to send deer home with folks in the most ethical manner possible. When I see game wounded, it truly hurts me, because I live with and see these animals all year long. It's a hunter's job to take an animal in the most humane way possible, and repeatedly seeing these animals hurt and fleeing for the hills, often at the hands of Magnum shooters, simply pisses me off. The animal is worth more than that. Around here it seems to be more prevalent among the .300 mag crowd. Seems like it's fairly common for .300 guys to shoot legs off deer or miss them entirely. I'm sure it goes on quite a bit with the 7 mag crowd too but I haven't noticed it around these parts anyway.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,995 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,995 Likes: 6 |
Actually, I do think there's a fairly consistent recoil line where most people can't shoot very well, and it's the .300 magnums. That's not my opinion, either, but that of a bunch of other people who've guided. Finn Aagaard said only about 1/3 of the folks who brought .300 magnums on the safari in Kenya could shoot well enough to consistently kill game, and I've heard other African PH's and North American outfitters put the line as low as 20% of .300 shooters. I've seen it myself numerous times.
The 7mm Remington Magnum approaches that line more closely than the .270. I've guided some (though not nearly as much as prairie goat) and far more people who absolutely couldn't shoot well were using 7mm Magnums, rather than cartridges like the .243, .25-06. 270 and .308.
And like prairie goat, I'd often prescribe some prairie dog shooting for those who proved they couldn't shoot their magnums, whether 7mm or .300. And sometimes they ended up using the prairie dog rifle to kill game instead. The .300 is too much for me anymore. I used to have a .308 Norma and shot it pretty well but years of drywall installation have taken their toll and my shoulders and the Big 7 is about my limit now.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,995 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,995 Likes: 6 |
For example, a couple years ago three hunters showed up in camp with 7 mags. Two of the three had issues putting a deer down. The next week, four hunters showed up shooting acceptable cartridges. All four had no problems. I've seen this repeated time and time again. Is the problem the shooter, not the round? Of course. But the round makes the shooter. I think what happened with a good many magnums is that people who couldn't really shoot to begin with bought them because, for any number of reasons, they thought that was the way to go. Some, and this is probably the worst case scenario, thought "more power" could actually make up for bad shooting. In this respect I think magnums rather end up getting a bad rap. I've not looked it up but in similar weight rifles and bullet weights isn't the 7mmRM very close to a 30-06 as far as recoil? Yes, that's been my experience. Keeping in mind the 7's I've shot have been on average a little heavier than the '06s.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874 |
For those with 7-7.5 lbs. magnums in 7mm or 300, how many rounds are you guys shooting in a practice session? And what positions?
Jason
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874 |
I'll go first...
Had a 300 Win Mag that weighed 7 lbs. Shooting 40+ rounds off a bench was no sweat. But a handful of rounds from prone started to get painful.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874 |
A buddy had no problem shooting his T3 in 7RM off a bench. Box after box. But when he switched to prone shooting for medium-range practice he told me he struggled to finish one box and almost had his son do it for him 
Last edited by 4th_point; 05/13/14.
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