Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters What's Petzals beef with the 7mm RM?

Cant tell you how many times ive seen this at the range.Guys buy these magnums cause some blowhard on the internet told them they needed it to hunt out west.
It seems like the only guys that need mags to hunt out west are guys from the east.

One time a buddy was telling me about the like new model 70 .300 Win mag. he purchased for $300. I asked him how he got it so cheap and he said the guy was in a hurry to sell it. Turns out he was leaving for his guided Elk hunt in two weeks and his buddies at work told him he'd be better off with a .300 Weatherby.

I can shoot 20-25 in an afternoon, prone off the bipod or pack, with a 7 RM that goes 8lbs even. I've watched a couple other guys do it recently too.... including someone else who's chimed in on this post. I don't know anyone who'd shoot a .270 more than a 7 RM. I know at least two guys who own .270s that haven't been outta the safe since they started shooting 7RM/162s....

It's just flat out easier to hit stuff with the ballistic advantages of the 7 RM.... that is not debatable, it is quantifiable, and has been hashed over several times already. I have yet to see a situation where the recoil of a .270 was acceptable, where a 7 Rem was not.

I have yet to see it in the hunting fields at realistic ranges.

There is no fine line in the sand where a certain level of recoil is unmanageable. It's quite simple- the more a cartridge recoils, the more difficult it is to shoot accurately. But that increase typically comes with an accompanying increase in ballistic performance. The level of recoil that is manageable varies greatly between shooters due to past injuries, mental toughness, body structure, muzzle blast sensitivity, etc. I've seen hunters that couldn't accurately handle a .270, and I've seen hunters who couldn't handle a .300WM. I've also seen guys that can bug hole groups with a light .338WM.

If a 7RM is too much, then moving down marginally in recoil to a .270 may just be the comfort threshold for the shooter, but it's unlikely. The marginal difference in felt recoil is so small that it's unlikely to make or break a shooter's ability to accurately handle the rifle. Stepping down to a .243, .25-06, or .260 is more likely to correct the recoil issue. Of course it does depend somewhat on how each is loaded. If you load the .270 with standard powder charges and 130gr bullets, and the 7RM with a max charge behind 180gr bullets, or course there will be a noticeable difference. But load each with a 150 or 160 gr bullet, loaded hot, and you'll likely need to step down to a .25-06 or .260 to notice a significant decrease in recoil.

On one hand I agree with what prairie_goat is saying. Guys who can't shoot or don't want to dedicate the time and money to practice with their rifle are often the ones who choose to shoot a magnum. They think that more power makes up for marginal (or even poor) shooting, and excuse themselves from practicing. These are the guys who are too macho for practice, don't use hearing protection when shooting around their friends so they look tough, and with these guys when it comes to power, whether in trucks, rifles, or power tools, more is better. Then we end up seeing hunters who gut shoot game, and they just happen to be shooting a magnum. I think this is more a relationship of correlation than causation. They chose a magnum because they can't shoot, not the other way around. Of course there are also guys who want to shoot, but bought a rifle that beats them up, so they don't practice much. And then there is JB's case of a shooter shooting poorly because of practicing too much with a large rifle, which does happen, but it's fairly rare, IME.

I remember one case in particular where a group of hunters showed up in camp, and sat at the bench to confirm zero on their rifles. We carefully watched each shoot their rifle, and either relaxed or cringed, depending on how our hunters shot. One hunter that was assigned to me sat down at the bench and started shooting. His scope had not yet been zeroed on the brand new .300 Win Mag, and he shot a 9 inch 3-shot group from the bench. He asked if I would help zero his scope for him, which I did. The rifle was wonderfully accurate. I started cringing. Later, we got onto a nice bachelor bull caribou that I noticed was feeding our way. I quietly got the hunter and myself rested behind a nice boulder, and had him laying prone, resting his rifle over my pack. The bull offered a nice, broadside shot at what I deemed to be within the hunter's range. After missing the bull twice, I quickly whispered and asked if he would like to try with my rifle, since it had no recoil and was extremely accurate. He took me up on my offer, and the next shot layed the big bull out on the ground.

As we were dressing that bull, another "shooter" came walking down the exact same trail that the first had followed. Each hunter had 2 bull tags, and he said he wanted this bull, too, so I got him set up with my rifle rested over the abdominal cavity of the first bull. Another shot and another very dead bull.

My rifle was a featherweight (Husky H-5000) chambered in 7mm Rem Mag loaded hot with a 160gr TSX- somewhat gentler in the recoil department than this .300, but nothing like a .243. That was a lesson in the psychology of recoil and marksmanship. If I had told him that my rifle was just slightly less powerful than his, I doubt he would have shot it nearly as well as he did.

Having said all that, if your personal recoil tolerance threshold allows you to accurately shoot a .270 (which means you practice enough to be an accurate shooter), chances are you can do the same with a 7RM.

I can see that, considering the pay-to-play clientele.....

Seven Mag for someone who wants all available options for the least amount of investment. .270 for a guy who shoots a box a year, and pays someone to find critters for them to shoot... which admittedly... is the vast majority. Makes sense to me....

I have seen it.







Whoa. Deja Vu.

That shows you how much of it is just in your head.

Enter the .277 150 ABLR........

I think the conclusion is two things really matter.

1. Not much
2. Very little

7.5 lbs Montana 7WSM flinging 162's at 3050 using 67gr of powder- I can get off a box of 50 in a session from prone off a bag, but I start to feel it a little bit at about round 35.

Good post!

Enter 7mm150 LRAB, with same BC, in a 7 Rem.... at 3150-3250...

An additional 200-300 fps.... without giving up anything... seems good to me.

Or, we could shoot them at a smooth 3k.... breathing easy on powder charges about equal to the .270/150/2950... but running a paltry 55k/psi. And still have plenty of room to shift into 180, mash the pedal, and haul some serious mail.

The .270 wants to be a 7RM when it grows up.....

Things tend to lurk there.

Ever try to deliberately not think about something? Walnuts.

I think you're painting a rather broad and misunderstood brush there. A good percentage of my hunting and shooting has had nothing to do with paying clientele. Not saying I've done all that much compared to many here, but I'd like to think I have a decent handle on what works and doesn't for many folks.

As far as outfitting goes, lots of folks simply don't have the time to dedicate traveling to a new area and learning the ins and outs, so they hire an outfitter. Nothing wrong with that, I do it myself. But for some reason hunting with an outfitter is looked down on here at the 'Fire. The outfitter clientele I've guided represent a good cross-section of Americana. Many ends of the social spectrum, from carpenters who saved up for years by bringing PB&J sandwiches to work, to rum magnates have hunted with us. Which means I've seen a bunch of different rounds in action, from semi-auto '06s with see through mounts to Jarrett 7 Mags to home built air rifles.

Dogshooter, Jordan,

20-50 rounds from prone with a 7RM is much better than the 300 I was shooting. That is a big difference. I'd rather shoot more than less and a handful of rounds doesn't really let a guy do much practice. I'm not that recoil sensitive either.

I had a 338 Win shooting the 225 TTSX at 2900fps and could shoot 40+ from prone, but it weighed 9.5 lbs! No way I was going to lug that thing around the hills and canyons.

Jason

Ha! 2950/150 is all its got, aint no growing left.

Just what is the ideal cartridge/rifle platform for blowing deers' legs off?

.223

Most of them work pretty well.

Back in the good old days when I owned and shot several 300 magnums,a 338 or two,and a 375 H&H,25-30 rounds of those in an afternoon from one of them was typical. At the same time I owned 7 mags and 270's and would generally shoot about the same amount of rounds in a given session.

It was always easier with the 7 mag and 270 than any of the 300 magnums or larger,but this is what you would expect.I was younger and more recoil tolerant than I am now; but even so last fall I had to help a friend with a few problems with his 300 Weatherby. I stayed at the range and worked on the rifle while he went to work....got it shooting well(loose Talley Mounts)and went through 25-30 rounds of full house 200 gr hand loads.I did not have any fun that day.

Some times in informal club matches at 300 yards, we were required to shoot 20 rounds in 25-30 minutes...something like that. I always used a light 270 for that work.

BTW it was not unusual for me to shoot a couple thousand 270 rounds in the course of a year(along with about the same amount of 7 Rem Mag ammo),so I would routinely break Dogcatcher's rule about 270 shooters going through a box of ammo a year. So did most of my hunting friends

Not that I always enjoyed all this because shooting at targets bores me stiff, but I was doing a lot of hunting out west every year(guided and unguided ),and felt that level of practice was necessary. I hate to miss animals.



Having nothing better to do tonight I plugged some numbers into the Hornady Ballistics calculator (hope I got this right!),comparing the 150 gr .277 150 ABLR at 2900 fps(270 Winchester), and the 162 Amax from the 7 Rem Mag at 3050 fps. I think these velocities are fair although each may get another 50 fps depending on your rifle/load.

Dogshooter is right; the 7 Rem Mag will beat the 270 Winchester,which we can reasonably conclude because the 7RM case is bigger, holds more powder,and gives more velocity with a bullet having the same .625 BC.

You guys can pull this up for yourselves, but as one example, the 7 RM-162 load shows 57 inches of drop at 600 yards from a 200 yard zero;wind drift at 10 mph is 18.7".

At the same distance, the 270-150 ABLR load shows 63.8"of drop from the same 200 yard zero,and the wind drift is 20.1 ".

So we have an advantage for the 7RM of 6.8" in drop,and 1.4" inches in wind drift at 600 yards. Obviously these differences will be compounded by the time it gets out to 1000 but that should be expected.

Sounds to me a guy better be on his game with either one.

Feel free to get on the calculator and do the numbers yourselves.If I screwed up the calculations I apologize in advance. Feel free to straighten me out.