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Elkslayer,

To address your specific questions:

�So, what is so damn wrong with having the bastards classified as a predator with a shoot on sight designation?�

In a word � nothing. Most wolf experts, the real ones � not the wannabes, are in favor of exclusion zones where wolves can be shot on sight or at least heavily managed by hunting or easily obtained permits. The logic behind the approach is minimizing conflict between wolves and humans. Repeated conflicts could cause a public backlash the might set back recovery efforts.

We didn�t get �shoot on sight� in Minnesota and I sincerely doubt you�ll get it in Wyoming no matter how nice you play. Minnesota did get the next best thing - the green light to shoot wolves �about to do damage�. There�s probably not much difference between the two in practice�

�So, why do we Wyomingites have to put up with wolves OUTSIDE the designated area?�

Once Wyoming get a management plan approved and assuming the people of the state don�t want wolves outside the designated area � you won�t have to put up with it. It�ll take some time, but you�ll get there.

sdgunslinger,

The USFWS has been working to delist the wolf in the western Great Lakes region for the last few years. The public comment period for the new rules ends on the 26th of this month.

A similar proposal last year was deemed in court to be too broad - that the USFWS was releasing authority over too large a geographic area. The current proposal limits the area to all of Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan and sections of North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio.

Not exactly a federal power grab, eh?

Minnesota stated in its wolf management plan that hunting would not be allowed for 5-years after delisting, however, we are now so far above the population criteria that mange and parvo are becoming a problem due to the wolf density. The answer to that is "management" - it won't surprise me at all to see a hunting season proposed and approved.

Jog,
K-9 distemper has been linked to the deaths of four collared timbers in the WhiteEarth state forest area!!!!!!!
Becker/Clearwater county is the general area known to have diagnosed cases in wolves,yotes,fox and raccoon's,not to mention domestic dogs too.

Like you said, we are above the carrying load of predators so mother nature is thinning the herd or pack!
Mike

With all respect to a fellow camfire member, Jog, you don't know what you are talking about when you speak of WY getting a plan approved and the wolves reaching their population goals.

In short:

We have a plan that most of the scientists approved of, it just didn't fit into the political wishes of the feds.

Our plan would not call for any limits or controls in YNP.

The wolves have met and exceeded the population goals.

Not taking shots here, just saying that the folks who have the blue & white license plates with the buckinghorse on them are a bit closer to the situation than someone several states away.

BTW - our govenor has a direct line to his office, call it and find out what WY plan is all about.

Don't have a dog in this hunt,but I'll send mine in anyway. I've meet too many of these USFWS and Park Service types to know most are a bunch of wanna be hippies from big towns...with no idea of what America's real citizens deal with.

From the beginning I felt the idea was to reintroduce apex predators to ultimately eliminate the need for the evil of sport hunting.

This sounds nuts,but I swear it was in the local paper a month ago. The USFW types were woundering why pronghorns ran so fast when there were no predators anywhere near that fast in Amerika. Recent finds disclosed that we once had lions and cheetahs-bigger than the ones in Africa-about 10,000yrs. ago.So what's their solution? Well h*ll, turn African lions and cheetahs lose on the great plains.

It was only a couple of nut cases,but who knows where it will end? If I lived in Kansas ...I'd be carefull. Being as I live in WVA guess I can look forward to the re-introduction of the wooly mammoth.

Elkslayer,

Telling me I'm wrong is one thing, showing me where I'm wrong is something else again. I do appreciate the "With all respect to a fellow campfire member" statement.

My only aim here is to clear up the misconceptions surrounding wolf delisting and management. I like to blame the Feds as much as the next guy, but in this case the shoe doesn't fit.

I understand your concern about a guy from Minnesota sticking his nose into Wyoming's business. I'd feel the same way if the tables were turned - even if you were right.

ElkSlayer,
May your state get similar wording in your game-codes and state statutes as we have up here.
The late 80's/early 90's truely sucked for farmers up this way
as when you did have a loss you had to get a USFW yutz to verify the kill and then get a check for your holstein for what you might get when you sell her to the mink-rancher for scrap!
I mean where would you get a milking holstein for $383.00?
The state finally did see the error of their way's after 2000 and would pay actual loss rate for livestock.
The Federal trapper while trapping on our farm in 1989 was complaining about people "gut-shooting" timbers with 22's and letting the animals run-off to die deep in the brush,then how was he suppose to get a accurate count on the wolves taken in problem area's!
Up here in the summer month the bugs clean-up the carcasses quick,fast and in a hurry!
Not alot of open expanses for aerial spotting in the timber/brush country during the summer months and come winter the ravens and eagles eat there share of carrion.
Good Luck and Remember your S's! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Mike

I'm all for the re-introduction of the wooly mammoth! Now that would be cool! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

This is their stated purpose and they've stated it in print. I read it at least 15 years ago, back when most people thought wolf reintroduction was a joke. It took them so long because they had to get their people imbedded in the USFW & USFS.

Dick

That's just swell.

I wasn't joking about the lion/cheetah thing. It was in the Charleston Gazette-Mail about a month ago in the science section.

Okay,I was joking about the wooly mamoth but -yeah- that would be kinda cool.

Ok Outcast but you forgot to tell them you can't believe any thing in that leftist, liberal, pinko, Charleston-Gazette. By the way, I thought I saw a Wooly Mammoth the other day in Kanawha State Forest. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Roost,

As we both know it's a leftest, liberal pinko plot anyway of couse it was in the Gazette...the are the spokespeople for that crap. Did you see the article?

If you and a wooly mamoth were wandering around in Kanawha State Forest it's a wonder either of you survived the machine gun fire from the range.

If you don't live by what's happening,how could you even know?They are killing the Elk herds like I love Beer!!!There all gone from where I used to hunt only 2-years ago seven miles out of town by road.

Would you like to try and protect your dog from this out of the Grangeville paper?What about the kids with there pet's since this happened about 1-mile from the Fish Creek Campground.

What if it was a child instead of a man trying to protect there pet?

Out Of The Grangeville Paper This Week!!


He ain't no wuss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jayco

I stayed out of this,because it angers me..There are pictures in the local gun shop of Wolves downing a Cow Elk and eating up through and only taking the Calf Elk out to chomp on and leaving the Cow Elk un touched other than the Texas Eat Out!!!!!!!!!!

Same pictures of the Wolves taking on a Black Bear and whoopin a$$...Not to mention they are in the outskirts of town dining on Cow's regularly and driving the dog's crazy howling at night...... Someone better do something soon before some child gets killed

Lot's of local stories but shut up is just that..SHUT UP!!!!

Jayco

It's a crying shame and an outrage. If I lived where you do...I'd be shooten wolves like I love beer! Which would put the damn things back on the endangered specie list where they belong.

Outcast,
Welcome to Minnesota thinking! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Best hope no child is hurt or mauled with the numbers increasing and their ranges expanding.
Mike

Gentlemen...I've just read through your interesting, entertaining, and informative discussion (debate?). No one in British Columbia has seen the need to re-introduce wolves here, because, well...we still have lots of them. That has not precluded heated debate from time to time over the efforts of our provincial government's attempts to manage the wolf population, just as it manages other game populations. Things are relatively quiet on that front at the moment, but I recall a time when an imported Greenpeacer and a few of his whacked out disciples attempted to physically interfere with a Fish and Wildlife cull of wolf numbers (being conducted at the urging of, and with the support of local guides and outfitters) in the northern part of the province. If my memory serves correctly, the cull was conducted relatively succesfully, and some of the protesters eventually had to be rescued as they all but starved and/or froze to death in the wilds...which would have seemed a fitting end I suppose. Obviously, our situation here is much different from yours. Larger portions of our land mass are much less densely populated, and the competition between the two primary predator, man and wolf, for the available prey, is not quite so fierce...though it does exist. Unfortunately, the concept of "balance of nature" is highly misunderstood by much of the public. While it is indeed a balance over an extended period of time, that long term balance is maintained by environmental factors and wildlife population dynamics which can and do cause the numbers of specific species to fluctuate wildly in the relative short term. The balance of nature is understood by many to mean that populations remain in a constant state of balance, and it just ain't so.

Anyhow, I enjoyed your discussion, and thought you might like to know that in spite of much political pressure to the contrary, our provincial government still steps in when it is deemed necessary to control our wolf population, and much of the province has a year round open wolf season which permits a hunter to take three animals annually.

Just as an aside, many hunters here believe we have a real overpopulation problem with black bears in our province. There is both a spring and fall season, and in many areas, each hunter is allowed to take two bruins annually. My understanding though is that hunting pressure on the bears remains very low, and that the generous regulations are not as effective a management tool as they could be.

Icedog,
Between BC's blackies and her lion's you best walk well aware in the hill country!
Mike

i agree completely, north carolina needs about 20 breeding pairs. reintroduced from existing packs in the west. let us share our wealth.