Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire I don't like this system...

Bare with me...
Let's say, you're going to build a new custom rifle, and you're looking for the right smith for the job...
How do you find a good smith? One you feel comfortable with doing excellent work, worthy of your hard earned dollars?
(kind of a rhetorical question)
You talk to a few, (which costs nothing), get feedback from others that have used said smith, and probably even get to look at some of his work!! Right?

How about...building a new house?
Same deal...right? Go to some open houses, look at different builders' product, judge the quality, maybe talk to some past customers, and talk with a few builders. (all of which virtually costs nothing)

Building a hot rod? Having a vehicle painted? Painting the house?
The list goes on, but the answers are all pretty similar to the above answers...

Now,...let's say you need...surgery.
No real feedback system...
No good way to shop for a surgeon...
No real way to tell if they're "excellent" or "good"...or bottom of the class.
You could go broke just shopping for doctors and paying the visit charges, and that's just to find one that you "like", or might have better communication skills.
You still really don't know how talented he is with tools.

I just wish there was a better way to vet doctors and surgeons especially.

Chicks do it all of the time when they buy a set of bolt on knockers.

I got lucky.

Found an excellent cardiologist when I went to the ER with my heart attack. Pulmonary specialist and oncologist were top shelf too.

Other than talking to someone that has been there and done that in your area, I don't have clue as to how you'd get advice you can trust.

Always remember that 50 per cent of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class.

That's reassuring!!
Kind of a "cup half empty" way of looking at it.

Barry,
My daughter has seen the best cardiologist in this whole area, the head of the heart "team" at the two largest (maybe more) hospitals in the city. And, that information was provided to us from other cardiologists,...
Yet,...that doctor has the bed side manner of a coyote hunter.

Duckdog,

I started with researching medical facilities online. I heard about Cancer Treatment Center of America so I went online and found out their survival rates and several other important statistics for their facility. For instance, they have the highest 5 year survival rate for later stage cancers.

Another example is searching for a good place to get a kidney transplant. We met with a couple specialists who both spoke highly of University of Washington. I went online and learned they have a high success with their kidney transplants...like 94% compared to 80% nationwide.

Those high percentages are the result of good surgeons and the latest technology. Both of my surgeons at CTCA were tops. My first surgeon had done hundreds of the surgery I needed as compared to local surgeons who said they had done a few each year.

This may or may not be of help where you live, but it narrowed down the choices pretty quick for us. Once I spoke with my surgeons face to face there was no doubt that they were the ones.

Hey! No need to bring coyote hunters into this.... I have an impeccable bedside manner myself...

I'm glad she got the best in the area. Hope you do too!

You kind of made my point for me A-a...

I'm not saying anything negative about your surgeon by any means...
I'm just saying that it always boils down to "talk".
For instance...I'm a carpenter, I know other carpenters that can really talk the talk.
Sell ice to an Eskimo types...but horrible craftsman.
Let's face it,...a surgeon is basically a mechanic of sorts.

Barry,...I guess I was referring to MY coyote hunter bed side manner.

And the top ones go into research .........

1. Sure, there are plenty of online review systems for physicians. Are they worth anything? About the same as a review on yahoo or amazon, IMO; meaning sort-of... or, not really....

2. People place faaaaaar too much emphasis on "the best doctor," and it's a point of pride for many to cite "my doctor is the chief of blah blah at blah," or "the best surgeon at blah big-name-city," etc, etc. It never ends, these weirdly self-aggrandizing assertions of self-importance. Funny, but this doctor's found in every major city simultaneously - guy get's around faster than Santa Claus, it seems.

3. a) You won't find many chitty specialists. Oh, there are some that one may not "like" for personal reasons. Get over it. Decide: You there to get your ticker fixed, or your azz kissed? Re-Hint: the one kissing your azz is not the one who graduated top of his class.
b) primary care is a different story. Sucks, but so it is.

4. Think of one's body as a car needing repair/maint. Sure, it'd be grand if with the snap on one's fingers, the "best" factory R&D engineers and technicians parachuted out of the sky, along with an endless supply of equipment and parts, to fix our car in a jiffy and all under warranty.

But this is reality. So any of us makes the best value-based decision one can and forges ahead. Jiffy lube can replace a brake caliper, for goodness sake. The car doesn't have to be shipped back to Japan every time.

So in the end, what determines a good, prompt result is two things: how good the tech is, sure. And also how well you communicate concerns, listen, weigh options rationally, and take responsibility for choices made.

p.s. telling the car's tech what he should be doing based on your google research, oh wise one, is probably not facilitating the outcome you desire, either.

I don't think I'd compare a major surgery to "replacing a brake caliper"
That'd be more along the lines of having a wart removed.

I really wish there was a data base for surgeons, where you could read of malpractice suits, contact willing past patients, how many of type "x" surgery they've done, etc...

I've read some of the online reviews, and yes,...they're pretty worthless.
But, I'll tell ya what,...after reading 30 "Dr. J. Doe was great!" yadda yadda

And,...then reading just 1,..."Dr. J. Doe was a total quack yadda yadda"...
Kinda makes you go "hmmmmmmmm".

I just don't like trusting someone solely based on the line of crap they talk.

Same here, was just lucky that one of the best in the state was on call that weekend.

That's exactly what I'm getting at: every surgery is "major" when it's yours. Fine. That doesn't mean it's particularly technical at all within the bounds of that surgical specialty. But, here we are, stressing over convincing ourselves, salving our anxiety, that we've found "the best surgeon", or whatever the case may be.



re: malpractice, that data exists but is not openly available, nor do you want it, frankly. There are a myriad of factors independent of that doctor's decision-making that play into who gets sued, and what the outcome of that suit is. So too with outcomes data. If you saw the raw data, you'd think doctor A was the pits compared to doctor B. But in reality, doctor A was an academic who took on the most problematic cases, and doctor B avoided any/all risky cases. Doctor A had twice the bad outcomes as doctor B. But when the going gets ugly, who would you rather took your difficult case? So, it's complicated beyond what can be easily spit out on a report card for public consumption.

As to patient referrals/testimonies, to each his own. Thus far I've been pleased or disappointed 180 degrees off from what others recommended re: many things (mechanics, plumbers, etc). Just hard to judge something so complex based on other's wild hair opinions.

Agree re: net number of particular procedure done. But that too is more complex than appears.

So, yeah, it's not easy to determine, "who should I go see?" What am trying to say is, don't over analyze it. Would start with who your primary care guy would send his mother to, and start there.

Have had many a patient beeching and crying about waiting, with pain, for some wonder-surgeon they've convinced themselves they need according to google or hearsay, when the orthopedist one town over could've done her little meniscal debridement two weeks ago and she'd already be post-op, in physical therapy, walking about and healing by now.

Are you a surgeon?

I'm talking broad spectrum here...not just me, although I am going under the knife in a couple of weeks... And, truthfully,...all I know about the guy that's about to open me up, drill holes in my bones, and sew the cartiledge back to it is,...he talked like he knew what he was doing. Not much else to go by really...?
He IS a specialist. And, shoulders are all he works on, but it still seems like a bad system when we all research the crap out of every other product and service we spend our money on.

But, how can you say "don't over analyze it" when I'm also referring to finding the right surgeon for a child? They're all the same questions, but who doesn't want the absolute best possible, or at least vetted as being in the "very good" predicate for their child?
I won't post up the entire health history of my daughter, but I'll say she's 15 now and that's 15 years of this system we've had to deal with and it sucks!
We've had our share of incompetence and "bad" doctors...I can assure you.
There isn't any information on these doctors TO analyze...let alone over analyze.

Yep..labral tear...Hills-Sachs...torn ligaments...etc etc.
I was fortunate enough to get a couple of different opinions, and their opinions pretty well mirrored one another.
(I'm not down under...sorry, kind of misleading)


Thanks for the input

Just try and make sure you get one that was in the 50 per cent at the top ,Problem solved.

Bob

Whenever I go into a doctor's office, I see their diploma on the wall. I'd rather see the results of their state board exam.