Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Barnes TSX claims - True or False?

Maybe it is just me, but I thought I�d see what you guys think.

First, let me say I like Barnes TSX bullets and am eagerly awaiting an email from MidwayUSA informing me that the new MRX bullets are finally available. But I have an issue with the way Barnes is promoting the TSX bullets on their web site. Barnes' "X-citing Facts" page


If you follow the link and scroll down you will see these pictures and explanations:


�Barnes 150-grain Triple-Shock bullet from a Federal .308 Win. factory load. ��



�Path of Barnes 150-grain Triple Shock bullet from a Federal .308 Win. factory load as it passes through 16-inches of ballistic gelatin. The bullet made more than five complete rotations during transit. ... The more rotations the bullet makes, the greater the odds of lacerating one or more vital organs. �

If one assumes that each petal leaves a more or less similar spiral trail, I count about 1-1/4 revolutions, not the 5 claimed. I emailed Ty at Barnes about this and was basically told that the man who took the pictures was a professional (like they never make mistakes!) and who was I to question a pro?

The claim �The more rotations the bullet makes, the greater the odds of lacerating one or more vital organs� also irritates me � I would contend that if the bullet is close enough to lacerate an organ, its going to do so as it passes whether it is rotating or not. The rotational speed just isn�t that great, as is clearly shown by the photos. It�s the old Black Talon �buzzsaw� argument that was never more than media hysteria.

So, guys, how many rotations do you count?

I see the 5 "humps" on top of the bullet's path that probably explain where they got their "5 complete rotations". But like you said, the bullets has 4 petals. Those "humps" would have been created by each petals so I agree with your 1-1/4 rotation.

Whatever their marketing claims are, I still love those TSX. Just ordered a box of 225gr .35 to try in my Whelen about 15 mins ago <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Dang, I wish I had time to count rotations in ballistic jello and make calls. Just load'em up and shoot things.......

Anything Barnes puts in writing is an embarressment to them. The Barnes #3 manual is full of mistakes.

Other bullets will turn also! Don't see any competitive advantage there. Also many X bullets only expand to very small diameters as compared to cup and core bullets.

I am going to try some MRX bullets however.

I like the TSX, but I do find some of their claims to be laughable. I wish they'd stop using the term "razor sharp" to describe those petals. That's a joke.

What was it? 1 in 5 twist barrel?

I like the bullets, they are very effective on game and quite accurate. Barnes however is known to stretch the truth in print. The new manual #4 has some calibres available on the copper club websute and the loads are reduced so much form #3 it's a wonder I didn't kill myself loading from it.

Ok, Now you've scared me a bit. Any word on when the manual will be published?

Like others, I love the TSX bullets and have found them to be very accurate. The only game I've taken so far was a 120 lb pig and the bullet, after shattering the shoulder bone, and going through the heart was found inside the skin on the far side. 120 grain out of a 7mm-08 and it weighed 119.7 grains and was expanded perfectly (ummm, no missing petals dare I say it). Barnes "razor sharp" petals claim makes me chuckle as well.

Allen

They said "Spring of 2007" for the next manual.

Anyone know if there are updated 7mm-08 and .243 loads on the "Copper Club" website that will come out in the manual? If so it might be worth me shelling out the bucks to join.

Thanks much,
Allen

CH,

I too would like to try the MRX, and am on Midway's email waiting list.

[BTW: One thing I've learned that I'd like to share with others is to pay no attention to Midway's "date expected in stock" listing on a product page. With regard to the MRX, that date has changed since May 7 in three day increments, and we're still waiting. (Somehow I doubt that Barnes told them ten times it would be three more days.) How hard is it to get a realistic ETA? Or if you really don't know, just say so.]

Anyway, back to your topic. Barnes marketing claims are a bit odd. Seems to me they would be much better served with a philosophy that published conservative numbers, welcomed comparisons with the competition, and made good use of testimonials from all their happy customers with real world experience using their products.

Credibility and word of mouth goes a long way in today's electronic world.

Sometimes it just comes down to common sense, based on our use of past bullets, designs, results, knowledge of the particular animal we seek and gut feelings. Then, when we actually see the terminal effects, we have experience (though very limited) to make certain statements. I'm awaiting this next hunting season so I can report that the TSX's are either the cat's meow, or otherwise. But my review (as the many are posted here each season) is totally dependent on how I view the effects.

Having shot many animals of like weight and species in nearly the exact same spot with the same bullet using the same load with varying degrees of "lights out" results, it is then my choice to use which result I want to convey to you. Not very objective from that standpoint. They all died and rather quickly....which one died "better"? Some "bang-flop", some staggered about for 20 feet. So.... is it a outstanding "blow them away" bullet as was seemingly indicated by the "bang-flop" or a good reliable bullet because it only took 20 ft. for the animal to expire.

Then again, each animal if different, every shot is placed differently, a bunch of different variables always at play. YMMV even with the exact same bullet delivered on target in similar fashion.

My 300WSM shoots the 180 gr. TSX very well. It is a dedicated elk and larger and nastier, rifle/caliber. I am encouraged by what I have read from hunter's with past expereince with this particular bullet. I'm very hopeful that it is able to perform as suggested. But, who knows? But what else do we base our choices on when trying out a new bullet, powder, caliber, scope, whatever? If this combination handily takes an elk this year, who's to say that, given the same circumstances next year, it will be a repeat performance? Which result will I believe has most value in my decision to continue to use this bullet or perhaps, look elsewhere?

There is no definitive answer. We just do the best we can with the information given us. Most any bullet will do the job placed where it is supposed to go. That is the bottom line. But some animals are much more tenacious and built sturdier than other's and don't always offer you that classic, or not so classic, broadside shot. This is where I believe that the TSX and similar bullet's may hold an edge. We'll see.

Personally, I wouldn't stay up nights worrying about it.

AD

I love the way thay 225 TSX shoot in my .358 STA.

I've just ordered some and will be trying them in my .35 Whelen.

What powder are you using and what are you getting for velocity?

not yet, just some .308. #08 win, 3006 and 300 win so far. PM me occasionally and I will check for you , or pay the $59.95 sand join the copper club, I got sucked in.

Sounds like you think it's worth the $60 so I might, Thanks for the update

Allen

Whatever Barnes says, I pretty much ignore. What their bullets do, I believe. JMO, Dutch.