Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Training Cocktail, water weight loss, etc.

As my daily training runs stretch out longer, I am starting to pay closer attention to immediate rehydration and glycogen replenishment. A few weeks ago, when I started my program, I was doing maybe 40 min. 1/2 jog and 1/2 walk. But fitness is coming around a bit and so now it is averaging 1 1/2 hr. with about 5 min walk/10 min jog intervals. Today, was 1 hr 55 min, with 80 jogging 35 walking. I dropped about 4.5 lbs.

To rehydrate this much water loss, you have to drink more than just the 2 1/2 - 3 litres it takes to weigh 4.5 lb. Also, the best time to replenish muscle glycogen is within the first hour after the exercise. This is the time when I really have trouble eating much of anything let alone a pretty good sized amount of food. (naturally, later on I'm ravenous, but that is not the ideal for muscle recovery)

So I have been mixing 2 scoops of Endurox R4 and 3 scoops of GU-2-0 (like Exceed) in 32 oz. of water. So far, I have followed up three longish runs with this mix and soreness and "dead leg" have been minimal the following days. Naturally, I drink more water than this, but this helps with my problem of not being able to face a meal after a run.

Probably the key to this is the Endurox. I have never liked this stuff because it does not mix real well and seems to taste somewhat powdery or gritty. But!! when mixed with the other ingredient, it improves the flavor and for some reason it seems to mix better so is more palatable (to me). This goes into the pack for long days out and overnighters too.

Related subject:

I have just ordered 2 lb of whole wheat couscous for my meal staple. There is nothing magic about couscous. It is just a refined semolina product. But, it takes less water to cook than conventional pasta or rice and if you measure water and pasta correctly, it is all absorbed so there is no wasted cooking water.

The problem with couscous is that it is highly refined like conventional pasta, any quick cook rice, or quick oats. While these products may be ok for the short term, I think that you can improve you endurance, recovery, and general performance by eating whole grains when you can. (I agree with Jardine on this one).

So, we shall see what using W/W flour to make the couscous does to the cooking time and the flavor. I also made up a batch of Pemm-Goo today (moose goo with shredded jerky added).

Gettin' ready..................... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

JimF

The main difference between the two couscous would be the protein in the whole wheat and it's high fiber content.
I like to munch on Power Bars when pushing it all day. I like whole wheat mini bagels to add to these for my lunches etc. The Power Bars supply sugar, some complex carbs, some incomplete protein and, above all, lots of needed electrolytes.
The down side to using whole wheat is the fiber in it will slow digestion and the rate at which the body will process it into glucose and glycogen. If you need glycose quickly, it gets in the way.
I understand glycogen recharging of the muscles takes up to three days if you've really depleted them. I notice when I "work out" for an hour or two, this isn't a problem. But if I'm on the trail all day with very few even short breaks, it will pull me down pretty badly. If I try to do that for days in a row, my performance degrades. E

I'm more in the Clif bar camp, but I agree. On a normal trip, I won't feel the need for an organized meal for "Lunch" I think that the bars adequately supply the quick burn fuels needed for on the go replenishment. Only during cold weather do I feel the need for hot soup or tea during the course of the day.

I think that 2-3 bars with maybe some dried fruit and lots of water/cocktail spaced a few hours apart can keep the midday "hongries" at bay. I think of the Pemm-goo as a supplement rather than a staple because it is so calorie dense.

That leaves the morning and evening meals for the whole grain stuff like whole oats and the couscous. (Fiber is not a bad thing for the trail)

JimF

Being new to this energy replacement stuff, I appreciate your post. I've only tried cytomax and it goes down easy. Have you tried it and if so, why do you prefer your cocktail?

I think you've inspired me to get out and start training again.

I find I need more than that. My standard trail mix is 5-6 Power Bars and/or Costco trail bars and 2-3 large Whole Wheat Bagels. I find I'm at least alert after 9-13 hours on the trail, but pretty tired. E

HR:

I think that most of the electrolyte drinks are pretty similar. I have tried Cyto, Exceed, and now the GU-2-O and they all seem OK to me. The difference is that the Endurox serves a somewhat different purpose as it offers 53 gr. of carbs plus 14 gr. of protein (~~4:1 ratio). It also contains a lot of the trace elements as well.

My problem is that during strenous exercise, I personally have trouble with solid food. Often, it just doesn't sit well. On a normal hunting day or a long trail day, even cross country, the intensity of the exercise is not as high so I don't have a problem with a sorta continuous nibble routine. But, on that trail run in the Trinities for example, it would be in the mid 90's and I would cover 17-20 miles. It is a great trail and well shaded so it's not as bad as it sounds. Still, when I would stop to drink or pump water, the sweat would be POURING off me. I found it hard to choke down a few bites of a bar even though I KNEW I needed to.

So.......

For me, when the need to refuel is most immediate would be during my longest runs or possibly hauling a very heavy load, at a continuous pace for a long term. Like an 8hr death march with a pack full of game..........uphill.........on a hot day no less. (YUK!!!) That is right when I have a tough time with solid fuel and prefer the liquids.

JimF

Maybe I don't work hard enough <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, but I've not found that much of a difference in what I eat and how I perform. But, when hunting/hiking lunch seems much less important than during everyday. I haven't tried the couscous, but am pretty happy with some of the dehydrated meals for dinner. I get the ones with two servings and I don't share... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />. As long as I keep myself with LOTS of water I'm pretty good. The amount of water I drink is much more important for my performance than anything I eat.

The water IS the most important thing. I think that a two serving potion of the typical FD meals is pretty standard fare for one.

It is pretty common knowledge that those highly refined products don't give the long term nutrition that the body needs to sustain and repair itself. Still, I'm not so sure about the necessity of whole foods for short duration trips. When you read Ray Jardine, he states that the difference between a whole pasta and a refined pasta meal is evident in the following exercise period. I can't prove or disprove either way.

The benefits of the cous-cous are that it can be doctored as a breakfast type meal or a dinner type meal, it cooks quick, is cheap in bulk and can be cooked in a freezer bag. Also, it can be kept around as a staple so you always have the basis for your backpack meals without running down the street to REI for some MH packs (which for me is near to 35 miles).

I was inspired by the short 'Logan Bread' thread to do some experimenting with that type of thing. I have a very calorie dense variation of that, which produces a whole cookie sheet of energy bars for about $3-$4 worth of ingredients. I used nothing but those bars and water for a long hiking/fishing day about a week ago and was pretty impressed.

In any case, the biggest bennies of the home prepped BP foods are (to me anyway) that......they are FAR cheaper than store bought, I have total control of portion size, and I can have the stuff around to make up a 2-3 day supply of trail food without running to the store.

JimF

I add some organic coucous to my dehydrated meals and add a little more water to compensate for it. Seems to work for me and adds more complex carbs to my meal for more fuel.

As for Cliff bars, they always seemed too sweet for me. Maybe I'll try both Cliff bars and Powerbars for a quick snack.

I rarely lose my appetite even if I've pushed over my limit. I'll drink a sport drink mix until the nausia/jitters subside and then gulp down whole foods or snacks. I've overextended myself on a few hikes/hunts but found hydration and energy foods are the key. In cold weather, I'll drink whether I'm thirsty or not. Thats one reason I save 1gal juice containers, fill 'em with water and stash one along the trail while on the early A.M. hike to the hunting grounds. I carry water and a filter on me, but like a backup source just in case a creek or spring is not around. A big plus if one is successful and packing venison.

MtnHtr

Thanks fellas! I guess I'm just as in tune with my needs as others, which may be due to the incredible amount of reserves I carry with me (5-10 @ 260#). That and the fact that the longest completely BP trip I've been on has been 4 days. During that trip though, my stove broke and had to resort to tortillas/PB and Clif bars for the last day and a half. Did fine, but did eat about 2# of steak once back at the base camp. However, I can get around pretty decent. I'm going with a pard to do some scouting for the Mtn Goat tag he drew in ID this weekend, so we'll see if I bonk eating only FD meals (3) and oatmeal. We'll be camping near a lake, so hopefully water will be plenty abundant.

MH- I recently tried some Powerbar Harvest Bars. Sorta like a granola bar with protein. Similar to a Clif bar, but less 'gooey'. Might be worth a try.