Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Testing on Bad bunch of Winchester Brass results

I told those of you that followed the post, that I intended to test further on brass for the 204 that had ".006 of run out on the case neck."

Step one, I turned the necks and 95% cleaned up with a .001 cut. Then I neck sized the cases, using the method of lowering the case in the die, turning 1/3 of the way and resizing. Repeated by turning 1/3 on the case again.

After that preperation, none of the loaded cases showed over .0025 runout on the necks. I loaded the cases with 22.5 grains of 4198, a known accuracy load for the gun. I topped it off with a 32 gr Vmax.

Test loads with good cases, shot 9/16 to make sure the gun was shooting well.

The first group with the neck turned cases shot into 2" with 3 of the 5 shots in 3/4". The next group, which consisted of 8 rounds, shot into 1 1/2" with 4 within 1". It is quite apparent that cases that have to be bent, to straighten up, will never shoot to my requirements. They always go back to throwing fliers.

Conclusion follows what my father used to say,"You can't make diamonds out of horse manure".

For the life of me, I cannot justify shooting rounds that inaccurate for varmints.

Dave, these are early manufactured brass as I have had them since 2010. I tried the glass surface and came to conclude that it is much easier to roll the cases when brand new.

Fred, as MD indicates, the cases may be thicker from head to toe and neck turning might not help.-Muddy

Muddy, that is my primary thought which causes the necks to be bent to measure straight.

You are getting the same voodoo I did, Fred. Same vintage cases, too, apparently. Although I think the 204 came out in 2008? Anyone remember? But I was NOT impressed. Screaming tackdriver potential with wild flyers.
Surprised you got those results with a nice tight chamber, however. I thought the real issue was the case jumping around inside the pipe as it fireforms.
Going to order those 204 reamers I've been thinking about, and we'll see what happens this FINAL try. I'll roll-test the brass...
Hmmm, I just had a BRILLIANT idea....an air-float roll tester.
Take a hunk of HMW plastic, do a chamber, cut in two, hook up an air line and valve.....I'll make MILLIONS. Millions, I say!

Dave I have a feeling that the brass was not made by Winchester, but by Hornady. I have seen some of their stuff without a flash hole, and likewise with Remington marked 17 Fireball.And while we are at it, those Remington fireball cases are about the worst I have ever seen. Everytime my friend shoots his 17, he will have to cull 4 or 5 from split necks, even after annealing. He even had one neck come completely off the case. It just goes to show there is a lot of crap brass being sold to the public.

Then you see why I tend to shoot Lake City brass in the 223 and formed into 20 TAC. Little runout on this good brass and seldom split necks.

I might have to put the 204 back into the safe and just shoot the 20 tac.

That's kind of disappointing, actually. I was figuring that eventually, production would catch up to demand and they'd get the warts out of making 204 Ruger brass. I remember when my buddy won the rifle, we had a heck of a time finding even ammo to shoot, brass didn't come along for at least another eight months.

As for the 204 -- there is 222 Rem Magnum brass. Perhaps you can score some of that, it will be good, and you can turn them just so. Otherwise, just cut it back and rechamber. If I ever build a 20 for myself, it will be a 20 Tac.

At this point I *THINK* it was about 7 years ago, but Winchester sold their Cartridge brass business. They don't make their brass.

Darkker, you are correct:

"In October 2007, Olin Corporation announced that it signed a definitive agreement to sell its Metals business to a subsidiary of Global Brass and Copper Holdings, Inc., an affiliate of KPS Capital Partners, LP, for a purchase price of $400 million. The sale includes all of the company's worldwide Metals operations, including its manufacturing facilities in East Alton, IL; Montpelier and Bryan, OH; Waterbury, CT and Cuba, MO, as well as its A.J. Oster metals service centers. The sale was completed on November 19, 2007."

I used the Google search terms "Winchester cartridge+brass+manufact*" to find "Olin's History," a page in Olin Corporation's corporate profile on www dot b2i dot us.

I pulled off a 204 Ruger barrel, from a Ruger 77... the action is at a gunsmith in Colorado, getting a 20 Practical barrel spun on it...as I have plenty of 223 brass....

I do have some Win Manufactured brass that has held up well, but the original 100 pieces of Hornady brass I had, was splitting their necks from day one... regardless of how much I was annealing them and doing conservative loads...

That's not good to hear.

So far I've had really good luck with Hornady 308 match brass, and 7mm08 brass I've squeezed to 243.

I brought my 204 home from the range last week and removed the scope. I am just done with the brass and am considering having Bob Green rechamber it to 20 TAC. At least I can use Lake City brass and end up with a gun that will shoot consistently.

Fred, have you considered trying to find some 222 Rem Magnum brass and necking it, then neck turning? Or, if the chamber neck is fat enough, just skin-turning for runout only?
Yeah, I know, brass is Im Flipping Possible to find....

Dave, I am of the mind set that I am done with the 204. I've had such good luck with the Lake City brass I converted to 20 TAC. It will probably cost me a couple hundred to have the barrel set back and rechambered. The damn kids would just get the money and blow it "their way" , if I don't spend it.

Besides, the 20 TAC is very little slower than the 204 and kills chucks to close to 400 yards for me. That is about the limit of my range. And, that is from a 6# mini mauser with a big vortex 6-20 scope.

Dave_Skinner: According to my loading log I brought my first factory 204 Ruger online in 2,004 - so its been over 10 years that I have been enjoying this amazing all-around Varmint cartridge.
I now have 6 Varmint Rifles in caliber 204 Ruger and they all shoot very well indeed.
4 of them use Winchester brass - to date NO problems with flyers or split necks or the like.
I hope the original poster does not give up on this outstanding Varmint cartridge - perhaps a new barrel in 204 Ruger would retain the outstanding ballistics of this cartridge and achieve accuracy that will be useful to him.
Long live the 204 Ruger.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy