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Heath is right again!

Interesting article that'll definitely ruffle some feathers.

Usually uninteresting articles don't!

I had two friends mauled by black bears in the last two season because the bears were shot with smaller calibers and didn't go down quick enough. One guy was knocked unconscious and were it not for a valiant pack of hounds he would be dead. I won't argue that lions are not more dangerous as I have never seen one outside of a theme park but folks tend to underestimate bears.

Well, yeah--which is why I've always been very careful when following up a hit bear of any kind. But also haven't hunted them with dogs, which no doubt increases the adrenaline level of the bear, as well as decreasing the range of a charge.

That still doesn't mean black bears are anywhere near as dangerous as lions--or cost as much to hunt, either in stress or dollars.

I have no experience w/lions as a matter of fact the only one I ever touched was at the AF store in San Fran in 1966. It's head was damn near 2 feet wide and the muzzle larger than a standard mail box, I was/am impressed. I have killed probably 25 black bears most w/an HVA 243 and old style 100gr. Nosler PT's. Anybody who says it isn't enough gun for BB doesn't know how/where to place bullets. I have never felt undergunned with it. Anybody who lets themselves get close enough to a bear to be injured is an IDIOT!. Sorry I grew up on a cattle ranch with much more dangerous critters than black bears on a hour by hour basis. But I will tell you something, wild cats SCARE me, why do you think that Col. Jim Corbett shot them in the head mostly.-Muddy

yeah but a lion is more apt to kill a person in the short time during which a mauling generally happens...one bite from a lion can put its canines into the skull or well into the thoracic cavity.....ive read a hell of alot of bear attack incidents where even large griz dont successfully do this with any regularity compared to a lion....i would fear the jaws of a lion much more than a bear with the same skull size....but then again ive read alot of official accounts of attacks by each and not had the chance to hunt either....i respect bears, even black bears....but its not the same level of respect i hold for big cats....

Yes he does as do most African PHs and there is/was a very valid reason for this (BTW, check the date on the article). I've spoken to him whilst at DSC a few years ago (keep in mind that article was written sometime ago). When Weatherbys first hit the scene, the bullets at the time could not stand up to the velocities they produced thus resulting in many animals being wounded due to bullet blow up.

This, coupled with the marketing ploy by Wby about using say, the 257 to kill zebras, didn't help any. Also, the first manufactured MKVs (German)had an issue with the safety, although not as infamous as the POS Remingtons. So the perception and reputation was well-established and it's been an uphill battle since. Today, with the advent of the same projectiles Don speaks of, Weatherbys are doing very well in Africa. I don't remember which author, either Seyfried or Layne Simpson wrote a good article discussing this. I can only speak for myself and my limited experience with Weatherby rifles. My 300 has acoounted for almost twenty head of AFrican game, and I did learn my lesson ..once with Hornady bullets in my 300. I like my Weatherbys, Model 70s and Browning Safari grades, based on *MY* eperiences and on the same experience, you couldn't GIVE me a Remington. While you are at it, you might want to read what he thinks about those too.

Three years ago I hunted with a Tanzanian PH who classed both Remington 700's (which Heath all but calls POS's) and CZ's (which Heath rates highly) as "cheap rifles." The PH's idea of a not-cheap rifle was the big-bore Austrian double he'd inherited from his father and still used for back-up work on dangerous game--on which he'd mounted a cheap red-dot sight.

The guy also owned a Remington 700, a 7mm Remington Magnum which he'd used to kill quite a few buffalo.

John, the other common thread that continues to this day (but IS changing as the old guard retires and more gun savvy PHs come into their own) is the old adage that bigger and slower is the way to go. I do love my 450NE and it's certainly a great caliber, but that same properly constructed bullet, driven 4-500 fps faster leaves the 450 in the dust. PH Wayne Grant (Into The Thorns), carries a 460 Weatherby because he states that with it, he can anchor a wounded bull elephant past 100 yards with no problem and he's never had an issue with it.

Long-range hunting is all the rage with some.

Up close is with others. Interestingly, for lots of people, getting close is "all the rage." It's not that they're "stymied" by a 400-yard shot, it's just that it holds no interest for them.

Strange as that may sound to you.

That's how I feel about it. I don't care how far somebody else shoots but a 400 yard shot doesn't interest me. Maybe because I was raised by a dedicated archer or maybe it was the .44 mag/.45-70 mentality I developed but I prefer to stalk my prey rather than reach out and touch it. I don't mind if others shoot hundreds of yards but I've never carried a LRF yet much less some gadget loaded scope. I have no idea why I didn't stay with the Guide Gun in .45-70 and be done with it.

Wayne also uses it to shoot lizards that are foolish enough to venture into his tent. (He can be a lot of fun to be around.)

I do think there is some strong regional influence on one's definition of "long range." I have hunted Africa, and could see how 200 yards could be a long poke, given the topography and vegetation. I have never hunted in PA, like moosemike has, but have been there a number of times and can easily how a 45/70 could be adequate. But where I live, being completely competent at 300-350 yards is a requirement. The photo below was taken from where my son (probably about 17 yo at the time) shot an antelope doe. He shot from sitting, over homemade shooting sticks, and made a clean one shot kill. The distance, as I recall, was about 325. He is standing way down in the photo, wearing dark pants and hunter orange, where the doe is. There is just no way to get any closer, and with a .270 Win or like cartridge, no wind, and calm animals,that is a shot any hunter should be up to.




I have great regard for Don Heath's experience. I believe his 350 limit is shaped by the landscape and cover type he works in. I am one of those getting-older, out-of-shape, over-gunned, easily-excitable clients. I probably could do like Barsness and take a 7x57 and 9.3x62, but I took a .338 and a .416 on my last trip. But hopefully I shoot enough that I could make up for my choices.

Utah708,
In that country you had better be able to shoot long range. Wow! I killed four antelope in southwestern South Dakota and it was very rolling. I was able to stalk them to around 200 yards. I wouldn't be stalking anything though in that pic you show.

I understand your comments. Sounds like a good hunt with your son and good shooting on his part. And 325 is not particularly long range with current technology.

However, I am always puzzled that advocates of long range say there is no way to get any closer yet bow hunters kill the same game in the same areas every season.

Reality is that it is always a choice to take a shot at any range, (and except when being attacked) never a necessity.

Dedicated long rangers set out to shoot animals at long range. They/we deliberately prepare special long range tools long before the hunt. The long range forum here would not exist otherwise.

It is a choice to shoot animals at long range.

That statement is not judgmental, merely fact.

I just read the article and I considered all his advice to be directed at clients visiting Africa.




Travis

I mentioned that possibility a while back on this thread, but apparently that's too boring for those who didn't read the article. And they're usually the majority of those who post on any discussion of any magazine articles.

Sonsabitches.

I'm off to the tanning bed and to send you the money I forgot to send you last week.





Travis

Never let facts intrude on emotional responses.