Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire What's wrong with church

I didn't say that. I was just amused at Travis. Salvation is based only on your accepting the sacrifice of Jesus as payment four your sins. First you have to acknowledge you need saving, then that you can't save yourself, and finally give up and ask for the free gift of salvation. That's it. It has nothing to do with what you can do on your own or what any Church can do for you. No one can save you except Jesus, because no one has paid the price for your sins except Jesus.

You and all the other transvestites will be roastin' like pigs.

'slave and I will be big pimpin'.



Travis

Sorry RH I wasn't necessarily directing anything at you personally. I have Travis on ignore and only knew what he said because someone quoted him. I was being sarcastic.

xxclaro;
Good evening to you sir, I trust this finds you and yours doing well this warm July evening.

I was going to bypass this topic/thread as it's been my experience here and for that matter in life in general that most folks won't be swayed into believing one thing or another by mere words. This is exponentially more so on this communication medium as we're more or less anonymous.

Now if someone gets to know an individual, sees how they live day to day and in so doing sees something of value - THEN and only then might a person be able to speak into another's life with something of value.

That said, the value of church as an entity is something that is debated within the community of believers as well.

Church, if done well anyway, should be able to pool the resources and skills of a group of people and enact more positive change into other's lives than they'd be able to as individuals. These resources and skills should encompass of course a spiritual component - it is a church after all - but also a practical, tangible component as well. Both facets are required to enact meaningful change in people's lives.

So for instance in the church that we attend, we've helped organize and sponsor folks who've gone to various spots around the globe to build homes, schools, hospitals and orphanages to name a few. I've had friends and family working on projects like that in Haiti, Cambodia, Russia, Romania, Mexico, Guatemala, Kenya, here in Canada and even recently in New Orleans.

Most of us wouldn't have the financial wherewithal or physical time and energy to do that single handed, but can affect positive change as part of a like minded group. Again - when resources and life skills are pooled together.

The building that these like minded individuals meet in does not need to be elaborate to cost a million either these days - especially if one wants things like a kitchen large enough to feed folks in the community who might need a good meal now and then or a gym for local youth to meet safely at.

The people who run these churches should ideally be doing much, much more than telling the attendees what they think about a passage they've read lately.

Ideally their job description will look more like someone directing a small company that's working to benefit their community. These leaders need to have a finger on the pulse of the community needs - whatever they might be - and should be directing the resources of the group towards meeting those needs.

So then IF that's what is going on at THAT church, then it would be my position that not really very much is wrong - with that church.

The other side of the coin is of course that there are a million and two examples of what has happened when it's done wrong.

Anyway sir, that's just one guy's thoughts on the matter and not much more. Hopefully it made some sense or provided a modicum of insight for you or someone out there tonight.

All the best to you and yours this week sir - do try to stay cool.

Dwayne

Well thanks BC, that was well said. Between you and 'Flave, perhaps I can start to see some value there after all!

If you don't like one, just move on down the list until one suits your situation.

xxclaro;
Thanks for the reply sir and for taking my post in the spirit I intended.

As I mentioned, what church should look like is truly in a state of flux among believers these days too.

For instance I've got friends and family who were once involved in ministry who have gone to meeting with small groups in each other's houses - much like the early church did.

They've found it to be a more meaningful experience for them on several levels - in part because of some of the ground I tilled in my first post.

As I say, there's pros and cons to large and small gatherings for sure and as I mature I'm surely more open to other ways of "doing church" as it's put.

Again all the best to you and yours xxclaro and if you're in the heat wave like we are - then do try to stay cool.

Dwayne

tommyd53,



Here's a little heads up on your thought. In Matthew 6:9-13 using the New American Standard Bible (NASB) we find "The Lord's Prayer". Jesus teaches,

"'Pray, then, in this way:

�Our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.�"

In the next chapter we find this: Matthew 7:12,
"'Therefore what ever you want others to do for you, do so for them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.'"

No problems here. I will preach at the drop of a hat , and even throw down my own hat. Always hoping someone will read and see the love and good will in it, rather than the condemnation that has turned away many.

I think the rednecks prayer is something about , do unto others as they would do unto you, just do it unto them first.

Not to say that something that we may call ''God'' does not exist, but what is the evidence that supports a justified belief in any form or version of God?

You wouldn't have to ask that question if you would honestly open your heart and seek God. the evidence is in the knowing and experiencing which will never be seen by an unbeliever. Billions of believers over the past 6000 years should at least give you enough evidence to seek and find out for yourself.

I know God. I talk to him daily and he talks to me. He has often told me things and later confirmed it to me just so I would know I was hearing correctly. I'm not some nut case either. I am more normal than many here if that says anything. LOL

God is real and evidence abounds if someone is so inclined to find it.

It's called faith and it's not easy for many to understand.

BTDT.

I'm asking the question from the point of view of logic and philosophy. Countless versions of 'God' have been accepted/believed throughout our history, but as there is hardly one version of God that is compatible with another, they can't logically all be true.

Most, if not all,these beliefs in this god or that god must be wrong. So if a belief in the existence of God is a matter of faith, faith alone does not appear to be a reliable foundation for a justified belief. That requires verifiable evidence.

Again, this is not to say there is no God, but it raises the question: why do we believe in the existence of a God?

So the question: what is the evidence that clearly points to the existence of God?

Man has looked to the skies in awe of a supreme being since our creation. Pardon me while I go consult some cave drawings.

It's the best I can do. Sorry.

One could have guessed that a self professed Christian would be the first to sling mud and insults. I can see you are the typical church goer. Profess your faith on Sunday but don't live it the rest of the week.
Typical that when faced with the truth of the nasty things done in the name of the church through out history, you cant take it. LMAO a bury my head in the sand, closet Christian.

Swifty52,

TAK is a few fries short of a happy meal.

I love when Atheists preach the Bible!
Keep it up, I always enjoy the entertainment.

The world is a bit different than a little island in Alaska. What you don't know would fill VOLUMES. I only hope I'm around to see the fall, cuzz I will laugh and laugh.

Self-righteously mocking perceived ignorance in others who you feel superior to based upon their self-righteousness.

Just goes to show that the church, nor any religion, has a corner on hypocrisy. Those without professed faith got it in spades, too.

What is the self-righteously principled stand someone who won't worship takes when he realizes that by associating himself as a non-worshipper he has been self-righteous and thereby committed hypocrisy himself?

Is he more of a hypocrite if, faced with that ironic reality, he continues course and takes no pause for self-reflection and correction?