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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
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It's my observation that religion is a money making business, selling salvation. I seldom see church leaders living humbly and in poverty. The major religions, Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran. Methodist, etc are major tax exept corporations with the local churchs as franchises.
Jim Didn't read the whole thread and will not. I can tell you the quote is not true with respect to Baptists. It would be impossible to get a group of Baptist churches to agree on a mission statement for ANY corporate umbrella. There simply is no Baptist "tax exempt corporation" and no "franchises". The Baptist churches I am personally experienced with are independent PERIOD. There are local and regional Baptist associations (i.e. Southern Baptist Convention) that cooperate on various projects and initiatives but no hard and fast international Baptist constitution that is followed. I can also tell you Baptists are not perfect; just take a look at me. However, acts that are tolerated, even accepted as 'normal' in certain other 'religions', are reason to be kicked out the back door of the churches I have been a part of with no waiting period, no counselling. That's one thing that made me just shake my head when the pope made his remark about 2% of Catholic clerics being pedophiles. He didn't say how many are KNOWN practicing homosexuals. How many of these pedophiles has he personally and publicly excommunicated?? How many of the known practicing homosexuals has he removed from authority?? But I digress, and not being Catholic, Methodist or Lutheran will stick to my personal experiences with the Baptist church. Your Baptist Church pays federal and state income taxes? If so, that would be a first.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It is interesting to me that nowhere in the Bible is there an instruction manual for proving God's existence.
WTF do you not understand about rainbows? Travis I understand that rainbows are the result of light refracted through raindrops. There is not need for a god to explain this phenomenon. I've never viewed it as an explanation; there are many Christians who recognize the Bible is not a science textbook. On the other hand if the Creator wants to assign a particular meaning to a phenomenon which occurs as a result of nature's abiding by His laws, He can do that. As a matter of fact, He did do just that. Again, just a matter of perspective.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,010 Likes: 2 |
The big problem is, when the leader of these cults dies or gets whacked, the following dies then or soon thereafter. The gospel truly has a life of it's own, or should I say the life of God in it. Otherwise, it would have died out like the cults you mention. History does not bear this out. As an example William Miller died in 1849, however today we have over half million Adventist and 7th day Adventist following a modified version of his teachings. The reason Christianity and Islam continued so long is each was useful to a evolving State. Christianity was adopted as the official religion of Roman Empire under Constantine, and Islam as the official religion of the Arab Empire that took over the middle east, north Africa, and half of Spain. It was their utility to secular powers, not supernatural powers that lead to their long term success. Catholicism ended in England when it was no longer of use to the reigning monarch, Henry VIII.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,010 Likes: 2 |
It is interesting to me that nowhere in the Bible is there an instruction manual for proving God's existence.
WTF do you not understand about rainbows? Travis I understand that rainbows are the result of light refracted through raindrops. There is not need for a god to explain this phenomenon. I've never viewed it as an explanation; there are many Christians who recognize the Bible is not a science textbook. On the other hand if the Creator wants to assign a particular meaning to a phenomenon which occurs as a result of nature's abiding by His laws, He can do that. Again, just a matter of perspective. Your statement presupposes the existence of a creator. As a result it's of no evidentiary value. Just as lightning is not evidence for the existence of Zeus, rainbows are not evidence for the existence of the Christian God.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,650 Likes: 5 |
The big problem is, when the leader of these cults dies or gets whacked, the following dies then or soon thereafter. The gospel truly has a life of it's own, or should I say the life of God in it. Otherwise, it would have died out like the cults you mention. The reason Christianity and Islam continued so long is each was useful to a evolving State. Sadly this is partially true. I tend to believe that Christianity lost an awful lot when it gained worldly prominence, as is well illustrated by the historically correct accusations hurled in this thread against the church. Power does indeed corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. No where have we seen this truth illustrated more powerfully than in the church for many reasons but chiefly that our Savior repudiated and refused such power even as He hung on a cross. Of course your theory on Christianity's survival falls apart in areas of the world where the state has suppressed its message and oppressed its adherents. The Church thrives where the blood of saints is spilled.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,010 Likes: 2 |
I understand that rainbows are the result of light refracted through raindrops. There is not need for a god to explain this phenomenon.
No. That's God reminding us that big [bleep] floods are a thing of the past. Travis So you believe in the literal interpretation of the story of Noah?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,325 Likes: 9 |
History does not bear this out.
Let me know when those hit 2000 years. I should add that longevity is just a single piece of the evidence
not supernatural powers that lead to their long term success.
No threat in asking for the Lord to reveal Himself. See what He says about that.
Catholicism ended in England when it was no longer of use to the reigning monarch, Henry VIII. Catholicism is a religion, not the church. The church is the believers and followers of Jesus Christ, in their hearts, not a religion or a nationality.
Last edited by Fireball2; 07/15/14.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Thou shalt not kill
How many thousands of years has the catholic and protestant Christians violated this commandment in the name of God and Christianity? More properly translated murder. There is a time to kill as it plainly states. I think it was proper and good for the Waldensians to take up the sword to defend themselves from slaughter. Many other examples could be put forth including the good Covenenters of Scotland. The greatest murderer of all time would be that good socialist Stalin, atheist that he was. Atheist, anti-Christian societies have sprouted up from time to time; the Communist block societies and France at the time of the French revolution. I cannot imagine why the Christian haters are not beating down the doors to live in such places. Just because we think you are wrong on this single proposition does not mean we hate you. Why would you equate disagreement with hate?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
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I understand that rainbows are the result of light refracted through raindrops. There is not need for a god to explain this phenomenon.
I've never viewed it as an explanation; there are many Christians who recognize the Bible is not a science textbook. On the other hand if the Creator wants to assign a particular meaning to a phenomenon which occurs as a result of nature's abiding by His laws, He can do that. Again, just a matter of perspective. Your statement presupposes the existence of a creator. As a result it's of no evidentiary value. Just as lightning is not evidence for the existence of Zeus, rainbows are not evidence for the existence of the Christian God. I never offered it as such. I know someone else did, but I did not. As a matter of fact AI said earlier that the Bible never seeks to prove the existence of God. On the rainbow, I was simply pointing out that all Christians aren't the pre-enlightenment knuckle-dragging superstitious dullards many who don't believe in God make them out to be. You do understand (I recognize you don't agree) the difference between what you said implying Christians "need a god to explain a rainbow" and what I said do you not?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,325 Likes: 9 |
Why is "Jesus F'n Christ" a knee jerk swear phrase?
Why not the others? Why only JFC? Because the god of this earthly world, Satan, has blinded the eyes of man. He seeks to draw as many away from a saving knowledge of and commitment to Jesus Christ as he possibly can. He doesn't care if he uses popular music, the arrogance and vanity of man, false religions, false prophets within Christianity, love of money, idols worship, comfort, complacency, pride...
Does not matter, as long as you are not a believer in Jesus Christ!!!
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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You do understand (I recognize you don't agree) the difference between what you said implying Christians "need a god to explain a rainbow" and what I said do you not? I didn't imply that at all. I just demonstrated why, in the light of post enlightenment science, the rainbow story is not evidence for God. I did leave the door open for member to further expound on their understanding of this story, and they can go with it where they may.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Ok let me rephrase the question.
You do recognize the difference between an explanation & an assigned meaning do you not?
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
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So you believe in the literal interpretation of the story of Noah?
Yes. That's why I'm going to heaven. You don't, so you're going to hell. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Outfitter
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The reason that there is no evidence that can be scientifically examined is because it takes faith for a man to be born again. Salvation is through grace by faith. Where there is irrefutable evidence, there can be no faith.
At the return of Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. This includes all who have rejected Jesus. They will not however be born again because with irrefutable proof, there will be no faith in their confession.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,010 Likes: 2 |
The big problem is, when the leader of these cults dies or gets whacked, the following dies then or soon thereafter. The gospel truly has a life of it's own, or should I say the life of God in it. Otherwise, it would have died out like the cults you mention. The reason Christianity and Islam continued so long is each was useful to a evolving State. Sadly this is partially true. I tend to believe that Christianity lost an awful lot when it gained worldly prominence, as is well illustrated by the historically correct accusations hurled in this thread against the church. Power does indeed corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. No where have we seen this truth illustrated more powerfully than in the church for many reasons but chiefly that our Savior repudiated and refused such power even as He hung on a cross. Of course your theory on Christianity's survival falls apart in areas of the world where the state has suppressed its message and oppressed its adherents. The Church thrives where the blood of saints is spilled. Not at all. Take a look at Russian and China. Russia is 15%-20% practicing Orthodox Christian, where China is just over 5% practicing Christians. As for Great Briton, it used to be effectively 100% Catholic. Today it's down around 10%.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,010 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,010 Likes: 2 |
So you believe in the literal interpretation of the story of Noah?
Yes. That's why I'm going to heaven. You don't, so you're going to hell. Travis I was simply pointing out that all Christians aren't the pre-enlightenment knuckle-dragging superstitious dullards many who don't believe in God make them out to be. EFW, if you look at Travis's quote, you will observe how some believers do a good job of portraying themselves as "pre-enlightenment knuckle-dragging superstitious dullards" all by themselves....
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Posts: 29,650 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 29,650 Likes: 5 |
No that demonstrates that Christians aren't the only ones who don't know how to read sarcasm.
He is being facetious.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Ok let me rephrase the question.
You do recognize the difference between an explanation & an assigned meaning do you not?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2011
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So you believe in the literal interpretation of the story of Noah?
Yes. That's why I'm going to heaven. You don't, so you're going to hell. Travis I was simply pointing out that all Christians aren't the pre-enlightenment knuckle-dragging superstitious dullards many who don't believe in God make them out to be. EFW, if you look at Travis's quote, you will observe how some believers do a good job of portraying themselves as "pre-enlightenment knuckle-dragging superstitious dullards" all by themselves.... Travis is just sniping the same way some on the other side are doing. I honestly think that if he thought anyone he was responding to was seriously and honestly wanting to learn something, his response would be different. I've been wrong before though.LOL
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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He needs no defending after all he is Travis. You have been here and should know by now. One day if i can do it i would like to meet him and watch him drink a free beer.
Last edited by plainsman456; 07/15/14.
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