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Campfire Outfitter
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In addition, all members of the SS were required to be Christian.
Citation please.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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As for teaching theology in public schools, that is not their job. They wouldn't have time. Too busy teaching islam and witchcraft. Your forgot Marxism, and every history in the world except Western Civilization.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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As for teaching theology in public schools, that is not their job. They wouldn't have time. Too busy teaching islam and witchcraft. What's witchcraft?
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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In addition, all members of the SS were required to be Christian.
Citation please. I returned those books so you will have to give me a couple of days. However, originally I said all, I think it's probably more accurate to say early SS officers. Some of this stemmed from the requirement that SS officers prove the Aryan linage back to 1800. However the whole of Germany didn't begin issuing birth certificates until 1876. The only other record the SS would accept was baptismal records, creating a defacto requirement that SS officers be Christian.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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In addition, all members of the SS were required to be Christian.
Citation please. I don't know about being required to be Christians but Himmler was a Catholic did use Christian ritual and theology to form SS ritual and theology.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Mr Sniper. Good morning to you. Upon awakening this morning I remembered the opening to a story I am writing, maybe it is a book, but either way it expresses my view on the beginning of the earth and life.
IN THE BEGINNING
GENESIS 1: 1-12
1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3. Then God said, "Let there be light "; and there was light. 4. God saw that the light was good ; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. 6. Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." 7. God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse ; and it was so. 8. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. 9. Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear "; and it was so. 10. God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas ; and God saw that it was good. 11. Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation : plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so. 12. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind ; and God saw that it was good.
The teller of this tale has no clue as to the exact number of days or just how God created the earth, nor does he care. It is enough to know the earth wasn't and then it was. The teller of this tale does have thoughts about what all went on in the process as it relates to the part of earth where he resides, that part now known as the Pacific Northwest on the Continent of North America.
It must have been one wild ride. There is evidence of vast inland lakes that are now long gone. There are multiple mountain ranges and deep canyons, some scoured by water and others seem to have been created by violent splits in the earths crust or perhaps formed by the finger of God. There are volcanoes that have spewed forth ash and lava from deep within the earth's core, sometimes bringing various other minerals and elements along for the ride. There is also evidence of ancient rivers that are no more. The teller of this tale does not think it would have been fun to live here when all this took place, but he takes great joy in the beauty and splendor of what is there now.
And good Morning to you Sir. I must agree, the story of the earth is one wild ride. The shooting gallery we call the Early Bombardment, the collision with a Mercury sized planet that lead to the creation of the moon, the billion+ years it took for our atmosphere to evolve. If you take it back to the Big bang, the story becomes even more amazing, with large short lived stars creating the heavy elements needed for the surface we stand on. Yes, it's a great story. Regarding the authors view of the time frames, at several points he quotes specific timer frames: Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. It's widely believed a second writer picks up at Genesis 2:4 (The Second Creation Account), and this second writer contradicts the above time frame: Gen.2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. Now I do not know your target audience so these differences may not be relevant to your message. Your apparent figurative approach to the text provides you great lea way. As I've said before, the less literal, and more allegorical you message, so long as it conforms to your readers sense of morality, the more difficult it becomes to argue against the message.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Book aimed at general audiences. It is a work of fiction.
Who knows how long a day was, 24 hours, a week, a hundred years, a thousand years.
PM me an e-mail and I will send you what I have written so far.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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As is usually the case it seems to me you over simplify and mischaracterize the situation here. Clearly there are groups within the Christian community who conform to some degree but for the vast majority the question of faith related in acceptance of the accuracy of God's word is not at all mutually exclusive to a academic excellence in math or free exploration in science. As a matter of fact in my tradition both have been highly encouraged. I don't believe in a new earth and don't believe it a necessary point toward belief in the reliability of Scritpure. Then it sounds to me like you are not a Dogmatic Theocrat. Do you believe as I do, that everyone has equal rights to speak freely in public of what they believe whether they agree with me or not? The assertion & use of that word suggest to me that perhaps you have different standards for religious speech than other forms, but based upon your overall attitude in this conversation I'd be surprised if that we so. You seem like a free speech advocate.
Good conversation/exchange. I'd gladly sit around a campfire and snipe antelope with you, and share Scott's general lack of enjoyment of many Christians. I came to the Church from your position, so I can appreciate it. EFW, thanks for the kinds words. You are correct. I'm an advocate for Capitalism, Free Thought, Free Speech, and the Constitution. IMO the Constitution guarantees the freedom of, not the freedom from, religion. Free speech means we should each expect exposure to idea's and religion we disagree with. When we disagree, we have the right to attempt to alter the other persons opinion with our powers of reason, and persuasion, so long as both are employed honestly, an nothing more. I have no right to use force to change your mind , nor should any government (unless you ways involve causing direct harm to others, such at murder of innocents, even them we must be careful it is not abused.). Time and time again, history shows the massive human tragedy that results when governments use force to alter the will of their people, be it religious or secular, it doesn't matter for most of the greatest tortures abuses and genocides in history were propagated under a doctrine that justified the ill treatment of those with different beliefs.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Book aimed at general audiences. It is a work of fiction.
Who knows how long a day was, 24 hours, a week, a hundred years, a thousand years.
PM me an e-mail and I will send you what I have written so far. Will do. I appreciate the opportunity to review it.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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As for teaching theology in public schools, that is not their job. They wouldn't have time. Too busy teaching islam and witchcraft. What's witchcraft? Just believe.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Campfire Ranger
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much of the Church's history like Government in general is very authoritarian. what it says, goes.
therefore don't ask any questions, or at least keep them to a minimum.
said another way, we're well into the age of science and technology. as such, questions are eseential. even question authority as necessary.
so, mankind needs to find a balance or a common ground, lest the whole thing blow up in our faces.
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Campfire Regular
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Gus said: "said another way, we're well into the age of science and technology. as such, questions are eseential. even question authority as necessary."
So, does that make you a protestant?
TF
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire Ranger
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Gus said: "said another way, we're well into the age of science and technology. as such, questions are eseential. even question authority as necessary."
So, does that make you a protestant?
TF I grew up with the Baptists. they didn't claim to be protestants, but maybe they were.
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Campfire Outfitter
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In addition, all members of the SS were required to be Christian.
Citation please. I returned those books so you will have to give me a couple of days. However, originally I said all, I think it's probably more accurate to say early SS officers. Some of this stemmed from the requirement that SS officers prove the Aryan linage back to 1800. However the whole of Germany didn't begin issuing birth certificates until 1876. The only other record the SS would accept was baptismal records, creating a defacto requirement that SS officers be Christian. You are hitching the horse by the ass. The requirement was that they not be Jews. which basically left every other ethnic German. Who's families were what was left (Christian). That's a huge leap from saying that SS were REQUIRED TO BE CHRISTIAN. And what about those SS officers born after 1876? They weren't required to have baptismal records, now were they? Doing the math, that is 64 year olds in 1940. Now, on to your misquote of the Pope. Pope John Paul never said what Hawking purported. Hawking misheard/misunderstood/lied. The Pope never said anything even close to "Don't study the beginnings of the Universe because that is only for God" or whatever. Nothing even close. Here's what he DID say - http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...e_19850706_conferenza-cosmologia_en.html
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Ranger
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BC30cal, well put, and lovingly so as usual. To those here who do not believe or scorn the church: Christians are not only not perfect; some that are, are not. Even for those who truly are, in Romans 7, the Apostle Paul teaches us about the original,sinful nature we have to deal with once we come to Christ. We do this with varying degrees of success even though "born again." So you may see what you say is the hypocrite on occasion and perhaps he/she is; but perhaps not. I struggle with sinful patterns of behavior though I fight against them daily, but believe and trust in the redeeming blood of Christ and His spirit in me. People like me make the church imperfect--the spiritual hospital it was meant to be. But to BC's point, The Church is the body of all believers, crossing denominations, cultures, languages, and socioeconomic groups-all who believe in and trust Christ for their redemption. As a group, and organized, we can do things beyond the reach of the individual's resources, as Dwayne said, to bring the hand of Jesus and his healing words to the needy. For example, here I am, in-country, in Ghana, Africa under the auspices of the Lukes Society, a Christian Medical Mission outreach involved in bringing medical care to some thirty Third World countries. In Ghana, a surgeon believer and friend and his two sons, and I, went to a small country hospital and though in archaic and difficult conditions performed about twenty surgeries in a two week period. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/Georgedevries/P1010091.jpg) Did you know universities (the Ivy Leagues in our country), hospitals, and women's rights were initially brought to the light of day by Christians? The Church, here on earth, will never be perfect because of it's members, but that does not render false the message of it's Cornerstone, Jesus Christ. It only proves that His message concerning us two millennia ago was needed and exactly right. George, you make a good argument for the utility of the Christian Faith, but utility does not equate with truth. But in claiming the good, you must also claim the bad. It was Christians women who ushered in Prohibition in 1918 while our boys were away fighting WWI. This lead to the Gangster era, and the corruption of local governments in places Chicago. It's this corrupt machine that gave us Barrack Obama, so by extension, good intentioned Christians own the election of Barrack Obama to the Presidency. Further more, the missionaries in Africa are notorious for the opposition to birth control, specifically in the form of condoms. Do we really need to spread more over population and Aids and poverty across the Dark Continent?" Antelope-, there is no doubt true Christians are faulty and have done foolish, thoughtless, and unconscionable things down through the ages and still do in the name of their faith but two things: 1) "we" could give a historical laundry list of positive and very constructive things as well so you have to be even-handed in your honest appraisal. 2). The fact that Christians have done bad things is irrespective of their having The Truth. Rather, it's a matter of living it out with our human weakness that are so often at odds with living "the Christian life." George, IMO you last post applies near universally. You can replace the Christian with any other faith or philosophy, and it would still apply. We all have a duty to live the best life we can within our chosen faith/philosophy, and we all think we have the Truth... I'll just end here as always, 'cause in this format one can always go so just far, and you have chosen thus far to refuse to objectively reflect on real truth and I will not argue it on a website.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'll just end here as always, 'cause in this format one can always go so just far, and you have chosen thus far to refuse to objectively reflect on real truth and I will not argue it on a website. What's REAL truth concerning religion?
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire Regular
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I'll just end here as always, 'cause in this format one can always go so just far, and you have chosen thus far to refuse to objectively reflect on real truth and I will not argue it on a website. What's REAL truth concerning religion? That his religion is true. Same as everybody else.
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Campfire Ranger
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I'll just end here as always, 'cause in this format one can always go so just far, and you have chosen thus far to refuse to objectively reflect on real truth and I will not argue it on a website. What's REAL truth concerning religion? DD, thanks for asking. John 3:16 to be succinct,..and then more.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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What's REAL truth concerning religion?
Sounds very similar to the question posed to Jesus himself!
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An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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George, IMO you last post applies near universally. You can replace the Christian with any other faith or philosophy, and it would still apply. We all have a duty to live the best life we can within our chosen faith/philosophy, and we all think we have the Truth...
Since athiests don't have the God of the Bible as an absolute standard, what criteria is used to live the best life?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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