Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Rifle Accuracy problem

It's pretty easy to free-float a barrel with the directions in the book, but if you have doubts about your skill a gunsmith is probably the right way to go. (Though I have also known some with very good reputations who didn't know how to properly float a barrel.)

Glad you liked LIFE OF THE HUNT! You can buy both books through www.riflesandrecipes.com.

John I have wanted to post some of the targets to commend you on the fine advice you so freely shared, but being digitally challenged I�ve never gotten around to it. I have spent considerable sums with gunsmiths seeking accuracy and not gotten the results I have by taking your sound advice. If that doesn�t tell the world something I don�t know what would.

A couple more thoughts for you to consider.

You mentioned you couldn't go any longer with bullet seating without running into magazine issues. I had a problem with a 300 Win Mag using the 180 gr Barnes TSX, and just the same as you are describing. The recommendation was this: if getting two groupings, the bullets need to be seated deeper. If getting a triangular pattern, seat the bullets longer. So, I did seat my bullets deeper and my 1.25" groups went to 0.75-1" groups.

I was shooting a slow burning powder (IMR 7828) at this point. My gunsmith suggested I also go to a faster burning powder, especially if you are seeing unburned powder residue in the barrel. So, I switched to IMR 4350 based upon his recommendation and my groups shrunk to less than 0.5" consistently.

So, by doing these two things, I was able to reduce my groups without doing anything to the rifle.

Example of before groupings:




Example after seating depth and powder change:



Another thought, is you said the first two are always in the same hole, then the bullets start jumping around. My issue outlined above was not the case. Mine would jump around and showed no consistency to which group the bullet would go into. It might shoot the first two together, 3rd off, 4th back to the 1st two, then 5th would be with the 3rd shot. Other times it would alternate, one just never knew, which drove me crazy.

However, in your case, if I knew the first two were always going to an exact spot from a cold barrel, which is typical in a hunting scenario, then the third was within 1.5", I would be happy with that for this reason; the first two shots when hunting are the ones that count, shots 3 thru whatever are typically at a fleeing critter and a guy is usually just trying to hit moving critter at that moment.

Good luck sorting it out.

One additional thought, I went back and read that you are using RL15, which should be plenty fast for the 375. So, I might think about changing primers.

Whatever you do, just change one thing at a time to determine if that single change made things better, or worse.

Cat,
Are you neck sizing or FL resizing? The Barnes TTSX are you at least .050" back when seating for testing?

Dave

Thanks for this response! Your groups look quite similar to many of the groups my rifle is producing. However, mine sometimes does a double and then pulls one sharply to the left..but often it is high. Also noted it might also be migrating the group upwards and to the left.

Looks like it's, at least, a float/bedding issue as it has a tight spot that is tight on the bottom and right side of the barrel. I can squeeze the tip of the forearm with one finger and my thumb and you can hear it 'tap' as it hits the barrel just about where the sling swivel is. Before and after that 2" area, its free floated. So that in the least needs fixed.

After that, I'll see how it performs, but I'll definitely be looking at your experience to see if it can help as those groups are very very 'familiar' to me!

Dave,

I am partial FL resizing, using shims from Sinclair to size the fired cases just enough.

On the TTSX's, I can't get them even close to the lands because my box is so short. Kinda frustrating as my choices for length are short and shorter.

catorres,

One very simple thing you can try is putting a shim between the stock and the front of the action to "lift" the barrel slightly in the channel, which may be enough to prevent the tapping you felt. I usually use one of the flat plastic twist-ties from a load of bread. If the rifle starts shooting after that, without the fliers, then that was indeed the problem, and you know what needs to be done to fix it permanently. (Though I have known more than one shooter whose rifle has a bread-bag shim inside, since the rifle shot so well during the experiment....)

I have the same rifle, a Winchester Alaskan...the newer one in stainless and laminated, with the pre64 barrel boss and stock shape. Have not fired it, but still love it. It is nib. Also picked up one in 30-06.

Tempted to shoot these but bought them as an investment.

Good luck with yours

John,

I think I know what you are talking about, those little square clip things that keep the bread bags closed. You are not talking about the plastic coated bendy wires, but the plastic squares with a hole in it that the twisted plastic bags go through, and it holds the bag shut, yes? If so, that's perfect, gives me an excuse buy my favorite overly sweet dessert bread

I'll try that, hopefully it raises it enough to keep it from hitting on the right side as well (it's bearing more on that side than on the left, I have found).

Trying to round up a local gunsmith to do the work...I know a couple really great guys from on this board and others, but they are far away and the shipping alone will cost more than the actual work. The one name I have found so far locally will not be available until after the 25th of July, so that will give me some time to eat my bread and see how the plastic deal works. Just gotta check the guy out further as I have had some bad work from other local smiths in the past.

Thanks for the advice, this sounds simple enough than even someone as destructive as me can probably complete it without breaking something!

Yeah, if you are going to sell it, probably best not to shoot it. But I really like mine, other than this problem. I adjusted the trigger down easily by following their instructions. Nice crisp 3lbsish. Action is smooth, feels solid. And it's a good weight for a multi-purpose 375. Now if I could only get it to shoot! If this problem goes away and it shoots like it looks like it wants to, I'm going to be really happy. But if not...well...we'll see!

Buy the book, its worth its weight and I am one of those guys running around with a bread tab in my rifle thanks to JB. Rifle is now dubbed Wonder bread

Yeah, I am definitely going to buy that, and Life of the Hunt. I was going to try the bread tab deal, but just decided to take it to a local smith I learned about recently. Being it's a 375, and it's also bearing on the right side, I figure I am just going to bed it for sure. Safer and more sure for me. Plus, while there, I can have the smith check the rest of it out and maybe shoot it for groups. He is a Lapua sponsored shooter, think he won the F class and/or silhouette nationals at one point. So it's probably a relationship that I want to start anyway, as I have one or two other projects (problem children) that I need to sort.

Also, food for thought, ensure that the hold is same for each shot and that nothing such as a sling post are catching on a bag. POI will shift a tad if those posts hit a bag.

catorres1,

You already have a lot of advice, so Ill make this short:

Been there and done that!

My rifle would alternate shots between two pretty good groups.
Problem was the scope - Something was loose and the recoil was effecting it.
Changing out the scope may save you a lot of trouble-shooting.

I seem to recall somebody suggested a scope change as the first thing to consider, on the first page of this thread.

But who looks at entire Campfire threads, unless they contain photos of young women with not enough clothes?

Yeah, not knowing any better way back I went to the new, kinda expensive scope last - guess what! Have had poor bedding (at the receiver) give the two group tango though.

(What, read all that stuff before posting? Horrors, this is the Internet you know. )

Oops, Sorry. I had gone thru a lot of the same trouble-shooting with a rifle that would shoot 2 groups alternating each shot between the 2 groups. It was a scope problem that the recoil was interacting. When I read 375, I jumped to conclusion. Sorry about that, but wish someone had told me to check the scope first as it would have saved me a lot of time trouble-shooting.

No big deal, don't worry about it. Happens a lot on longish threads, sort of the nature of the Insta-net. So much stuff to read through when you're limited on time and itching to give a guy some help.

I need to get your book, John.

To the OP's quandry: it seems that if there is a raised spot in the forearm channel causing a problem, a bit of sandpaper and the right sized dowel would make short work of it. The double group problem I was involved with was solved by loosening the scope mounts and re-tightening them to something more sane as far as torque goes. My dad taught us: tighten it until it strips, then back off 1/4 turn.