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No, there aren't any rules--but in both sports the grounds or equipment have been changed over the past few decades to limit distance. And in baseball, performance-enhancing drugs were banned.

But both golf and baseball are competitions for money. Hunting isn't--well, except for competitions for selling products, or endorsements.


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Pete:

Got the article right here. There's a photo of a Mauser-actioned rifle with a two-piece set of mounts. And there are six optical devices, one mounted on the rifle.

The caption says: "Ganyana prefers good optical sights over open sights in any situation." I don't know if Ganyana wrote that himself in the third person or the editor did.

The mounted optic looks like some kind of red dot, maybe with magnification. That one has an integral clamp fixing it to the front mount only. Below the rifle is another red dot scope, perhaps with magnification and that has two QD rings attached to it. Next to that is a Leupold variable of some sort, also in QD rings. They look like they'd both go on the rifle in question.

Below those, are a little holo sight, like you would see on a pistol. Then a second larger holo sight with integral mounts. And a small Leupold of some kind. I don't recognize it.

Assuming this is his rifle, and I don't see why not, all six of these optics have been used on this rifle, or could be with a few minutes work.

Hope that helps.

Edited to add: Now that I look at the photo more closely, the only QD mounts are on the first Leupold. The other mounts are "QD" only in the sense that a quick twist with a screwdriver would mount them.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Bob,

You are right about Africa providing more opportunity. Of course, some of this is exaggerated today by "game ranch" (fenced) hunting in South Africa and some other countries, though even that isn't necessarily shooting fish in a barrel. There are some tiny properties where animals are essentially put-and-take, like hatchery fish. But a fenced ranch of tens of thousands of acres is something else.

But most of Africa is fre-range, and even there the numbers of animals are far higher than in North America, for two reasons. First, winters aren't severe, though droughts can be. Second, there are far more kinds of animals. Even if you split North American big game animals into record-keeping categories, there are only about three dozen. In Africa there are at least 80 kinds of horned game alone.

All of this results in an abundance most Americans can't even imagine. Your point about 8-10 big mule deer or elk is actually fairly accurate. I have seen at least 50 MATURE kudu bulls, the equivalent of a 300" bull elk, in unfenced country in Namibia in a 10-day hunt, and over 1000 impala in one day in Tanzania, including a pile of mature rams, and single herds of over 1000 Cape buffalo in Botswana.

This is partly why African trophy standards for a week or 10-day hunt are higher than a North American hunt for mule deer or elk. Over there you're not just looking for a "legal" animal to kill, like a brow-tined bull elk in Montana, but a truly mature bull. The PH simply won't let you shoot anything smaller, and there are enough kudu in many parts of southern Africa that the only reason for not bringing home a good trophy is the search looking for an exceptional trophy. So there's no real reason to shoot beyond 350 yards--or 350 meters, however, you want to measure it.

Also, there's the standard African policy of charging a trophy fee anytime blood is drawn, whether or not the animal's recovered. This cuts down considerably on chancy shooting, whether at short or long range. While good African trackers (whether black or white) are fantastic, they aren't superhuman, and without some luck aren't going to be able to find an animal that's not pretty hard-hit, especially when the animals live in big herds--and many African animals do.

Plus, the meat is normally either sold or given to local tribes, so there's an additional incentive to recovering game, either monetary or necessary for hunting access. So in addition to the basic ethic of attempting to avoid wounding animals, there are other incentives to pass on iffy shots.

Then there's the terrain. While there is some open country in Africa, even there the thorny ground cover sometimes doesn't allow for the steady shooting positions required for long-range shooting. And even if the shooter can get steady, the animal may not be entirely visible. There are exceptions, since parts of South Africa and, especially, Namibia are a lot like Arizona or Wyoming, but again they're exceptions.

Much of the best hunting country is more or less level, but covered with thornbush and trees. In a lot of bushveld a 200-yard shot would be very long.

In many countries there's also the residual British-based hunting ethic that regards getting as close as possible far more commendable than making a longer shot.

So yeah, there is a considerable cultural divide.



Excellent and knowledgeable reply.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
No, there aren't any rules--but in both sports the grounds or equipment have been changed over the past few decades to limit distance. And in baseball, performance-enhancing drugs were banned.

But both golf and baseball are competitions for money. Hunting isn't--well, except for competitions for selling products, or endorsements.


Sorry, but I don't see how those comments relate to mine.

Being an avid baseball fan, I watched the homerun derby a few nights ago... the farther the ball was wacked, the more loud and excited the commentators and crowd were.

My point: I really don't see where rules in baseball teach anything about rules needed in LR hunting. They are completely unrelated. I also played a lot of golf in years gone by, and range was only limited by my ability in the use of the right club. There may be a lesson there worth pondering. grin

Bob

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Originally Posted by CZ550
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
No, there aren't any rules--but in both sports the grounds or equipment have been changed over the past few decades to limit distance. And in baseball, performance-enhancing drugs were banned.

But both golf and baseball are competitions for money. Hunting isn't--well, except for competitions for selling products, or endorsements.


Sorry, but I don't see how those comments relate to mine.

Being an avid baseball fan, I watched the homerun derby a few nights ago... the farther the ball was wacked, the more loud and excited the commentators and crowd were.

My point: I really don't see where rules in baseball teach anything about rules needed in LR hunting. They are completely unrelated. I also played a lot of golf in years gone by, and range was only limited by my ability in the use of the right club. There may be a lesson there worth pondering. grin

Bob

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Aluminum bats.

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CZ550,

On one level you're right, because golf and baseball are games! And hunting isn't.

But on another you're wrong:

Spitballs were outlawed in baseball in 1920, except for pitchers who'd long used it, because pitchers started to dominate batters. At about the same time the ball was "juiced," so it would fly farther.

Fences were moved closer to home plate in most professional baseball parks over the next few decades, because not enough runs were being scored, and more paying fans could be crowded into the parks.

The pitcher's mound was lowered in the 1960's, because runs were down.

The strike zone has been dicked with, off and on, for all of the above reasons. Right now it's the smallest it's been in a long time.

The size of golf club heads has been limited in recent years because of too-long drives.

Golf balls have been limited in design, for the same reason. In other words, they were de-juiced, because of too may birdies and eagles.

Professional-level golf courses have been lengthened, as I recall an average of around 400-500 yards over 18 holes, in the past 15 years.

Is there a parallel in hunting? Not really, because it's not a spectator sport--or wasn't, before entire cable TV networks were devoted to hunting.



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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by jorgeI
First the earth cooled, and the contraction caused the first 700's handle to fall off...


WTF did I tell you people? He pounced like a goddamm cat!

Burns is snappin' selfies in preparation for the debate.



Travis


I was going to laugh uproariously...then remembered Burns.

Travis is probably correct.


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Originally Posted by jorgeI
All valid comments sir, albeit a couple of caveats: The "Weatherby Freebore" is a thinkg of the past. With the advent of new powders, that freebore is not what it used to be. Accuracy-wise, at least for me, they have been the most accurate rifles I've ever owned. Cheers,

Jorge, most of my expiereance has been with the 7mm and 300 Weatherby cartridges. I never had one that shot real well with out farting around with it for a long time and even then the results were not spectacular. The other factor for me, at least in regards to the 300 is the fact I have both a nice 300 win mag and a mod 70 300 ultra mag, which is my favourite. I fail to see what the 300 Bee offers over the Win Mag and the Ultra stomps it handily while using an unbelted case that is cheap(at least prior to the current craziness).

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Some of the 300 Weatherby's I've had shot like gangbusters...but those all had Krieger barrels... grin




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I've had (and have) 300 Win Mags and have barely been able to break 3100 fps. I don't care for the short neck, but overall it has been very accurate for me.

My 300 Weatherbys easily achieve the adverised 3250 fps with 180gr bullets (which is all I shoot) with 80gr of MRP/RL-22 and half MOA (TTSXs). Belts to me are transparent, in other words when I buy a cartridge, the belt (or lack thereof) is inconsequential.

The 300 RUM published specs are what, 3300ish ft/s (180 gr)? and that is with 12 grains more powder than the Weatherby, so "beating the pants" is a stretch.

I will grant you the horrendous expense of Norma brass and that is why I often-times use Remington brass at considerably less money . noted and granted. But materially and functionally speaking, the 700 is a cheap, cost reducing design and it shows.
Hyperbole aside regarding the bolt handles, their extractors are cheap and subject to breakage, and I just can't even consider a safety that is on yet another recall, not to mention the fact it fails to lock the bolt. Looks as well all know is subjective, and that's just a fact of life and in that regard I think Remington's bolt handle looks cheesy with that flat, oval bolt handle...Almost as fugly as the one on Brownings.

I do love my Weatherbys and I have quite a few, but in reality, give me a Browning Safari Grade or a Model 70 in 300 H&H every time. cheers, jorge

Last edited by jorgeI; 07/17/14.

A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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3100 is a good place to be for a 30 cal mag. You get much above this point and they require much more discipline to shoot.
As for the RUM. I get over 3300 with a 24" tube. And given the choice I think belt less cases are preferable. With the 300 weatherby's I have loaded for I had trouble hitting 2250, unless I leaned on it pretty good. 3200 is more realistic IME.
And just as you think the 700's bolt handle is ugly(I agree), both the weatherby and browning safari are garish looking relics from the 50 and 60's. Sorta like a pimp wearing a loud, purple suit!

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I can see you assigning that moniker to a Weatherby but to a Safari Grade?? really?
[Linked Image]


Yep, ugly/good looking subjective, but cheap extractors, brazed on bolt handles, and safeties that are at best questionable and don't even lock the bolt when engaged, well those are facts, not open to interpretation. Oh, and so are my chronographed and half MOA groups...


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I'm not understanding the bashing of Remington 700 actions. The tolerances are not as close for sure, but the fact of the matter is that is a good thing for functioning. Other actions with tight tolerances fail in like conditions

I own a few of them in both hunting and competition configurations; they operate great in the harshest conditions. When I say that, I'm talking about sand, dust, dirt, wind, rain and every other type of crap thrown at it when it MUST work like match shooting over a period of days and hundreds of rounds. Ya got to be able to run the bolt and run it quickly. I've done well with them. Wasn't the Remington 700 the choice of the military for sniper work? I would think it was chosen for the same reason.

I don't think I'd be ascared to take one to Africa.


As far as the dude, Ganyana, and his top 3 list, everything JohnBurns has written is right; the guy is accurate about 33% of the time.



Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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It wasn't chosen for that, AT ALL. Think lowest bidder. Besides, sniping and Dangerous Game hunting have little in common. Remington extractors have a history of failure in dusty/dirt conditions, hence the big market for replacement extractors.


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I honestly trust the factory extractor more than some of the aftermarket replacement. I think the Remington extractor is fine as long as one cleans it out now and then.

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And the FN action on the Safari was a cost cutting measure vs the 98 with its H ring breach, cheaper safety/trigger and cheesy pot metal'ish bottom metal. Not to mention many had salt wood stocks.

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Originally Posted by jorgeI
It wasn't chosen for that, AT ALL. Think lowest bidder. Besides, sniping and Dangerous Game hunting have little in common. Remington extractors have a history of failure in dusty/dirt conditions, hence the big market for replacement extractors.



You must be right. I'm sure the buyers wanted to put our Country's Finest in battle with the cheapest equipment that could be had to save us a few bucks. They're always looking to save the taxpayers some cash. smirk

BTW, I've had exactly one extractor fail on a competition rifle. It gets treated like a hammer from a tool box cool


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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No, the safety was changed to allow for scope use and of course their safeties WORKED. The salt issue was an obvious issue for a few of the many years it was in production but irrelevant to rifle quality. And why did they stop making it along with Winchester and the pre-64s? to save costs and have a cheaper action. ..like the 700s.


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Originally Posted by Mike70560
Zimbabwe Requirements

Class A Game
5300 Joule (3909 Ft/LB)
Minimum caliber 9.2mm in diameter
(Elephant, Hippo, Buffalo)

- Class B Game
4300 Joule (2883 Ft/LB)
Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter
(Lion, Giraffe, Eland)

- Class C Game
3000 Joule (2213 Ft/LB)
Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter
(Leopard, Crocodile, Kudu, Oryx / Gemsbok, Hartebeest, Wildebeest, Zebra, Nyala, Sable Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, etc.)

- Class D Game (627 Ft/LB)
850 Joule
Minimum caliber 5.56mm in diameter
(Warthog, Impala, Reedbuck, Sitatunga, Duiker, Steenbok, Jackal, Game Birds, etc.)



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Botswana-.375 dangerous game
Cameroon-.354 cal or larger group 3
Central Africa-.375 for dangerous or big game.
Nambia-Big game 5400 joule at least .375 for that energy(lion)
South Africa-minimum .375 for big game including dangerous.
Tanzania-.375 for dangerous or big game.

I am presently living in Africa and hunt many of these countries.


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