Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Sheriff's Deputy Mistakes Pistol for Taser

Hi, Zebra. Both Barak and I believe that child molestation is a heinous crime, and one that should be punished severely. However, we approach prison ministry attempting to show prisoners the love of God, and to help direct them to a relationship with Him. God loves that child molester down in cellblock B just as much as He loves me. Hard to imagine, but it's true.

Neither of us would ever say that a child molester is a great guy because of what he did (or would we ever condone it under any circumstances); we're simply saying that he is still a human being in spite of what he did, and we do our best to find Christ in him. It's not always easy.

I'm not sure if that makes sense to you, and you probably don't agree with it. But that's okay. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Penny

I didn't read this whole thing. My boss used to be a cop on two different police forces. He told me a couple of times that mistakes like this were bound to happen. In the dark with the stress and a quickly developing situation it's just too likely.

Personally I think tasers should be shaped like a flashlight instead of a pistol. Having a lethal and nonlethal tool holstered the same and having the same hand feel and shape is a recipe for disaster.

Barak,

I will take this opportunity to disagree on this point. I do not call the electrician, because I am perfectly capable of wiring the house myself, same with the plumber. I might call the fire dept for back up in case I can't handle the problem all by myself. I will do my utmost to make sure their trip is pointless, but my firefighting abilities and equipment might be overwhelmed, then the fire dep't is good insurance.

Calling the cops is a matter of another color entirely. Calling the cops, if you have time before the perps make it through the door, just might keep you from prison. It helps to demonstrate you're a "good citizen".

If a home intrusion ever happens at my house, I will call the police. I have no illusions that they will be of any use to me except in the matter of documentation and evidence collection. The average response time in this part of the county is usually not measured in minutes, and definitely not in seconds. But I will go to great efforts to allow them every opportunity to do the job for which they are so poorly paid.

I understand that the only persons I can count on in time of emergency reside inside my house. I will do what I have to to keep them safe. I can do that longer if I do not put myself in a position to be sent to prison for the first time I have to (heaven forbid) defend the members of my household.

280,

First let me apologize for an earlier statement. The crack about sending an incompetent police officer back to school to become a lawyer was facetious and unbecoming of a civil discussion.

Next; to address your points:



I will not give information which will reveal my identity. To do so would be to put my lovely grandaughters at risk to our predatory society. (I have shared their photos on this forum)

Also, many employers have been known to make life difficult for employees who have revealed unsavory political points of view which might include advocacy of the second amendment. My wife is a bit addicted to the income from my employment, and I have only a year till my pension becomes effective.......

Suffice to say OSHA catalogs us as "heavy industry".

The discussion of this point ends here from my perspective.


I was trying to make the point that Police have no corner on danger in their profession. Many of us hold jobs where we hold the lives of our coworkers, our subordinates, and sometimes the public in our hands.

The last time I looked, law enforcement was far down on the list of employment hazards. I am pretty sure that Mining, Agriculture, and Logging are all far more hazardous to the individual.

You once again refer to my nice safe job. I will repeat, I have seen three fatalities in a little over twenty years. That was from a crew of about 220 full time employees. I have seen at least six individuals hospitalized with life threatening injuries which included massive third degree burns and compound fractures. And I have seen countless injuries requiring months of rehabilitation but were not life threatening.

This is within a crew of about 220 employees, with a management team very interested in safety, and a very good compliance record and working relationship with OSHA.

There may possibly be a couple of Police depts in this country where duty is as hazardous, but they are few and far between.





Around here the cops on the small city forces make less than a Walmart checker and have to work longer hours to do so, get few benefits, and no 10% discount card at the store. Seriously, my sister had a friend who started working as a checker at Albertsons right out of high school. They pay well enough and had a benefit package which allowed her to retire at age 45, or so I was informed by her father.

The deputies in the small counties do a bit better than the guys in the small towns, and they do even better in the larger counties.

I have a couple of relations which are employed by the counties. My understanding from them is that a State Trooper will earn an annual income on a par with other professions such as an electrician or plumber.

The police have one of the toughest jobs in our society and are extremely underpayed. Nobody does it for the bucks, at least not in Idaho. That leaves the old timers that got into it through their love of firearms, and a desire to contribute to society. The newbies that just want to help their fellow man, but who usually don't have a clue about weapons. And finally the bullies who just want to be able to shove folks around and get off on the fact they have the power to shoot the ones that don't lick their boots.

I personally know a couple of each given example. Unfortunately with the low wages paid by the local small towns, they have a small pool to draw from and the latter type tend to congregate there.



When a person's job performance is so lackluster that they are costing the employer more than they are benefitting, are we to continue employment out of consideration of the children?

When that person is terminated for poor performance, is that rightfully considered a punishment, or an opportunity for advancement into a career more suited to the individual?



If that mistep included reckless endangerment, termination would be quite justified.



You are very correct. I am not a lawyer and I did not use the proper nomenclature. You may insert recklessness into my post in each usage of the word "negligence". That was my true intended meaning.

I am aware of the difference, now that you have brought it to my attention. As I heard an Idaho judge explain it once, negligence is the endangerment of property loss. Recklessness is endangerment of life. I think the officer in question did endanger someone's life. While I do not have the education to prosecute or defend this individual, I do have the education required to sit on her jury.



How about compassion for the poor nut up the tree, or for that matter any citizens which she might get in her sights in the future? Or compassion for the taxpayers which will have to bear the burden of any judgements made from her reckless adventures?





I think we are beginning to come to agreement, but this still does not address the reckless manner in which the wrong weapon was employed at a time when no officer was endangered.

Cool. Thanks--I appreciate the comment.

I've successfully handled enough situations without the police, and watched the police flatly refuse to handle the situations I have referred to them, that my take on the matter is somewhat different.

I hope those situations were resolved without the use of lethal force.

That is the point at which I feel it is fool hardy in today's climate to not involve the police at the earliest opportunity.

Damnit Barak...quit arguing with me. Makes me have to sit down and argue back!

As far as housing molesters, I spent 4 years working the LA County jail system, and molesters were housed with molesters. Occasionaly one would end up in general pop....they were easy to spot. They were usually bleeding profusely.

And as far as dollar amount on victims of molest, your simple actuarial equation is just that...simple. What is the cost of the effect it has on the child...her family. I maintain, there are somethings you can't put a dollar amount on.

Causality running the other way? Still doubt it. Were not perfect but, if you have had a number of cops pointing guns at you over the course of your lifetime, than you were probably doing something to warrant it. Either that or you have horribly bad luck and a penchant for ending up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And as for the called the police comment, go back and read the original post it was contained in. Do you really believe the reason dad didn't handle it the way you would like to see it handled/think itshould be handled, is because he called the police first? C'mon Barak...the point is your way is not going to happen...legally. When you make such statements, it makes me wonder if you argue just for the sake of arguing. Kinda like Monty Python's arguement sketch!



Now, I AM tired of arguing with you over this. And if you'll excuse me, I have to go over to the "Cop shoots kid on ATV" thread and argue with you over there! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Regards,
Justin

Mrs. Barak,
I understand why you do what you do...and really don't have any heartburn with it. If you can help them find God and make them better people who don't molest children when they get out, rock on! Your a better person than I. But, and I don't mean to sound flippant or anti-religous, but I didn't know God was lost. Point being a lot of the criminal types "find" God in jail...only to lose him back out on the streets. I call it a "Convenience God"...and it rubs me the wrong way. But please don't take that as a slight at you and what's his name...it's not. I'm sure you see the same thing. I applaud you for your faith and what you do...just don't know how you do it.

Justin

Barak
Here is a cut and paste of a Robert Service poem... Memorized it many years ago and can still recite it easily, so I must find it significant.
art

A prisoner speaks:

Majority of twenty-three,
I face the Judge with joy and glee;
For am I not a lucky chap -
No more hanging, no more cap;
A "lifer," yes, but well I know
In fifteen years they'll let me go;
For I'll be pious in my prison,
Sing with gusto: Christ Is Risen;
Serve the hymn-books out on Sunday,
Sweep the chapel clean on Monday:
Such a model lag I'll be
In fifteen years they'll set me free.

Majority of twenty three,
You've helped me cheat the gallows tree.
I'm twenty now, at thirty-five
How I will laugh to be alive!
To leap into the world again
And bless the fools miscalled "humane,"
Who say the gibbet's wrong and so
At thirty-five they let me go,
Tat I may sail the across the sea
A killer unsuspect and free,
To change my name, to darkly thrive
By hook or crook at thirty-five.

O silent dark and beastly wood
Where with my bloodied hands I stood!
O piteous child I raped and slew!
Had she been yours, would you and you
Have pardoned me and set me free,
Majority of twenty-three?
Yet by your solemn vote you willed
I shall not die though I have killed;
Although I did no mercy show,
In mercy you will let me go. . . .
That he who kills and does not pay
May live to kill another day.

*By a majority of twenty-three the House of Commons
voted the abolition of the death penalty.

Art,
Wonderful poem...wish I had talent and could write like that.
Justin

Well...that's kind of the point.


Our experience is somewhat different, which might explain a thing or two. I've spent about eleven years working four state prisons; I have no experience with jails.


There are some things that people would not like to admit that a dollar amount can be put on; but actuaries still do it every day.


Not in this case. Back before anybody knew what identity theft was, an escaped prisoner plucked an SSN out of the air to use, and it turned out to be mine. He was considerably older, fatter, and shorter than me--and black--but it still got a gun stuck in my face at every traffic stop and whenever I went to the DMV. I never quite ended up making it all the way to the station, but it went on for years before one old cop took pity on me and explained to me what was going on; the others would just pop the handcuffs and leave me beside the road when they discovered that I was the wrong guy.


As I'm sure you remember, I have almost no details at all about the case; so I can't say. That wasn't my point anyway; my point was that once you call the police into such a situation, any realistic chance of handling it yourself is gone. I don't understand why that's such a sticking point: it seems perfectly obvious and non-controversial to me.


Of course it's not going to be legal--just cheap, quick, fair, and effective. That makes it four ways better than the legal system.

Hi, Justin. I'm quickly checking in before I go to the airport to fly to Raleigh, NC for the weekend. So I don't have time to respond to this message the way I'd like. But if you're interested in discussing it (it's okay if you don't want to), you can PM me, or we can go over to "Christ at the Campfire" and we can begin a thread there.

The short answer is that I agree with you. A lot of cons will con you every chance they get. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But there ARE some for whom it "sticks," and it changes their lives. The way I look at it, if even ONE person "gets it," it's worth all my time and effort and then some.

Now child molesters, I don't know... they probably have deeper psychological issues/problems that may keep them from ever being "normal" again. A lot of them probably should spend the rest of their lives behind bars. But luckily I don't have to solve that problem. All I have to do is show them (and explain to them) God's love.

And if God called you to do it, yes you could do it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> It's all God, none of it is me under my own power...

Just didn't want to leave for the weekend without a quick response.

Penny

True, true.

However, there are the other kinds too. One fellow Penny and I are working with just got out after 19 years in prison for kidnapping, felonious assault, and rape, and that was by no means his first number. He's pushing 60, and it's an adventure watching him try to go straight for the first time in his life--especially since the only place he can afford to live is the worst section of town, where there are drugs and prostitution and worse on every corner, and gunshots sing him to sleep every night. The State makes it just about as difficult as possible not to get violated and end up back in prison; but at least he's got folks like Penny and me who try to make it a little easier on him.

For example, he was a CAD operator for three years or so in prison before he got out. Right now the only job he's been able to find is heavy labor day work for $6/hr; he'd like to get a job doing CAD again, but since he's a sexual offender the conditions of his parole stipulate that he's not allowed to use the Internet at all, period. Things being the way they are these days, it's practically impossible to get or keep a tech job without being able to use the Internet. I called his PO and did some explaining, and we've got things to the point now where he's allowed supervised Internet access. He's got an e-mail account and has applied for eight or nine different positions; we'll see how things go.

Mr. (and Mrs.) Barak it is with all do respect that I would offer this observation. Age does not make an individual change, just slow down. I no longer drink tequila, jump off bridges or sass my wife. But I will...if conditions are right...and he'll do his "thing" also, if he gets the chance. I'm sure that he and I both hope that these conditions don't get "right" . When they do...I'll be in the doghouse or sore. He''ll be a rapist again.