Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Savage 99 conversion

Alright, I know I'm going to get a lot of flack asking this question to a bunch of collectors, but believe me this is no collector item. I have a Savage 99 receiver, with a 250 magazine, that I want to build into a 250 Ackley Improved 40 degree. Now I'm a fairly accomplished gunsmith. I can carve a stock, inlet, checker, and install a barrel. What I need to know is, what do you do with that spool magazine. Do I need to cut it somehow (how exactly) for the larger diameter cartridge? Several people have told me that the 250 or 300 magazine will work as is. This was a common thing in the 40s and 50s, but nobody seems to know much about it anymore. Any ideas out there?

Trouble,
<br>
<br>It might work as it, since the .250-3000 and the 40 degree AI aren't that much different. Whenever I have built, or have had built, a rechambered Model 99, I have used the parent cartridge in the rotary magazine rifles. The Model 99C is a much easier foundation upon which to build a wildcat, but the sharp shoulder of a 40 degree AI is likely to cause you feeding trouble regardless of the Model 99 magazine style that you use.
<br>
<br>An optional solution might be to install a 243/308/358 spool and build a 25 Souper, rather than a 250 AI. I have rechambered a couple of rifles to 250 AI and subsequently rechambered them a second time to 25 Souper, a cartridge that has worked better for me.
<br>
<br>Sincerely,
<br>
<br>Bearrr264

Well I have considered the 25 super (I take it you are talking about a 308 necked to 25), and may end up with one. But I'd rather go with the old time classic. Since none of the factories load standard 250 Sav. anymore it's a handloading situation any way you slice it. I guess I just like the look of that stubby little Ackley cartridge. Anyway have you ever tried it yourself? When you decided to rechamber to 25 super, was it to gain performance, or because of feeding problems?

Trouble,
<br>
<br>The 40 degree AI cartridges are a bearrrrr to get to feed well in the Models 99 that I have tried. The two (2) rifles that I rechambered to 250-3000 AI and then to 25 Souper (25-08) were a Ruger Model 77 RSI and a Savage Model 99 CD. The 25 Souper feeds better and gives higher velocity in both rifles. The groups stayed about the same. The Ruger is still a 25 Souper, but the Savage is now a 25-284.
<br>
<br>My friend, Jeff, who is a certifiable Savage Nut, has a Model 99 CD in 257 AI that Ray Montgomery did the rechambering work. Ray and I both told him to go with the standard 257 Roberts, but he wanted and got the AI. I don't think that he has ever been happy with that rifle, although it does group very well. Put it this way, he has never to my knowledge hunted with it and the last time I visited him, this rifle was buried in the deepest back corner of his safe. Jeff's current Model 99 hunting rifle is a Model 99F that he had rebored from .243 to .264 as a .260 Remington. I liked his so much, I have had the same job done and am equally pleased with the result.
<br>
<br>Sincerely,
<br>
<br>Bearrr264
<br>
<br>

Very interesting. You've just about sold me on the 25 super. Just to make sure we're on the same page, you're talking about the 308 necked down, or 243 necked up? Dies from RCBS? Magazine spool from a 99C you say? My 99 was made sometime in the 50's, will the 99C part fit alright? I really appreciate this. This is exactly the sort of first hand information I've been looking for.

Trouble,
<br>
<br>For whatever reason, I seem to have better luck, in general, necking up than I do necking down. I make my 25 Souper brass by running Winchester .243 brass though the die with a coat of Imperial Sizing Wax.
<br>
<br>The Model 99C is the clip model. You would need a .243/.308/.358 spool which should fix you rifle fine. The only spools that are really different are the .284, radiacally different, and the .375 a little different.
<br>
<br>Sincerely,
<br>
<br>Bearrr264

A .243/.308/.358 rotor will only fit a later M99. The rotor was lengthened and related receiver machine work had to be modified to accept those cartridges as the action as originally manufactured wouldn't accept a cartridge longer than the .250-3000/.300 etc Savage. Fitting a later rotor to an early action requires the services of a very good machinist and is a real pain. Don't recall off the top of my head exactly when the change was made. Early to mid 50s. Rick, please help me out here with a closer date.

Receivers that will handle the .308 family start at the 900,000 serial number (late 1955).
<br>
<br>Rick....

Thanks Rick!

Rick99,
<br>
<br>Do you know the specifics of the change? Is the rotor longer, or just redesigned?
<br>
<br>I have a Model 99R in .308 that was rechambered from .300 Savage, with the barrel properly marked. If it was made in serial number order, the serial number is 7376xx, which I believe is earlier than 1955/56. I bought it converted and it feeds fine, so I assumed that the rotor had been changed. The rotor is case colored steel, not brass or aluminum.
<br>
<br>Sincerely,
<br>
<br>Bearrr264

Bearrr264,
<br>
<br>I don't have the details of what was changed and will go with Skidrow's explanation. Your rifles serial indicates an early 1954 production. The color cased and brass rotors had mixed use through that time. My data shows that only brass was used through the balance of the 50's. The early receivers were only used for the .250 /. 300 calibers while the later receivers were used only for the new .308 family. When the early receivers were used up (somewhere around 783,xxx range) all calibers was chambered in the later receiver (9xx,xxx range). Rifles with early receivers were still being shipped in 1957 while later receivers started shipping in late 1955. Note the overlap. The later receivers only go to around the 970,000 range. The last of these (50's style rifles, lever safety) were cataloged in 1960 as E's and EG's. That's more than you asked for but it might be of use someday.
<br>
<br>Rick....
<br>

Well, I'm in the 677,000 range, so I guess the 25 Super is out. We're back to the 250 Improved, or the standard 250. Bearrr264, what sort of feeding problems did you have? I'm wondering what it would take to get this thing to feed the Improved round.

Bear,
<br>
<br>Your's may have had the short action rotor replaced with a long action rotor by a gunsmith who didn't know what he was getting into when he accepted the job. I know of several older gunsmiths who have said that they had done it once. The problem was that they found out after they got into it that it was a money losing proposition. Because of the involved machine work required to fit the rotor they all said the job took longer and was a lot more involved than they thought at first and if they'd have charged the client enough to cover the work they were afraid the client would just let them keep the gun and buy a new one else where because it would be cheaper. They all said they'd never do one again as it was too hard, too complicated and took too long to duplicate with ordinary machinery what Savage had machines designed to do. I've also heard rumors that Savage would do the conversion during the 50s but have never been able to obtain proof. It may well be that they did as the arms factories would do just about anything within reason that a customer wanted in the old days. Maybe someone else who frequents the forum knows more about it and will share what they know.
<br>
<br>Rick, would a letter from the historian show a return to the factory and re-barreling to a different caliber?

It might. I don't know at what serial the the records end.
<br>
<br>Rick....

I think I confused the issue with my first message. Let me explain. What I have is a short receiver in the 677,000 range in 300. I also have a 250 carrier. Since talking to you guys I think what I have is a later, longer 250 carrier (aluminum). I had hoped to make a 250 Improved but it looks like that isn't in the cards. I just started looking for a short 250 carrier, but so far no luck. I may be stuck with a 300. Looking at the long 250 carrier, I think I might be able to shorten it, but if I would still have feeding problems with the Improved round I'm wondering if it would be worth the effort. I might just start looking for a 99 in 243/308.

T-1,
<br>
<br>If you're thinking about looking for another rifle to build on you might take a look at using a post '60 99E. The main difference between a post '60 99E and a pre '60 99 is the lack of a cartridge counter window and that they have the most God awful wood that anyone ever carved a stock out of on them. On the plus side for your purposes, the wood can be replaced since you're building a custom rifle, they're plentiful and aren't that expensive or very collectable and as long as you're going to the trouble of having it re-chambered (or more likely rebarreled) there's no real reason that the person doing the work couldn't cut a cartridge counter window in the receiver at the same time.

Troublsom1, I have a former 22hp that has been rebored and rechamberd for the 25/35 ackley 40 deg and it functions fine in the unaltered 22 HP rotary mag, so your 250 ackley just might work. BTW I hace a Ruger 77 in 250 Ackley and I would be glad to send you a fired case to check feeding with in your action.