Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game DS's Dall Sheep

Guys:
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<br>It looks like his photo host is down.
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<br>I also want to publicly acknowledge Art as a first-rate guy. He has invited me, sight unseen, to go up to Alaska fishing/hunting numerous times. I know others from the Board have gone, with nothing but kudos to report. I hope to take him up on the offer in the (hopefully) near future. He's a keeper, whatever his opinion of the pictures.
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<br>Rick

Rick,
<br>There you go ruining my reputation! When people realize how low my standards are, what will they think? ;-)
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<br>E
<br>I would like to thank both of you guys for the support...
<br>art

E.......you cannot count the rings on a light colored ram such as that one. The picture is not near clear enough for that, and if you know sheep as you say, counting the rings is difficult at best even when you have a ram in your hands, much less looking at a downloaded pic on a computer screen. But if you indeed know sheep, then you would know that your 5 ring count is WAY off considering the curl of the ram and the heavy brooming on the left side. No five year old ram would be close to full curl nor broomed as heavily.
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<br>Sitka......I'm not sure what happen to the picks, but what I am sure of is this.......they were up all day and night, the vast majoroty of folks saw them, including many of the nay-sayers, and all who posted concurred an error had been made as to the age and size of the sheep....but you know that, you can read posts as well as I can.
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<br>To all:
<br>Sitka/Art may be the nicest guy in the world, the most knowledgable field judger in the business, numero uno, head hauncho, whatever...........but fact is, he was out of line in the extent in which he went to alledging my hard earned dall was in fact an illegal kill. Forget he should have known better if he is indeed a "sheep guy", but at best, he should have reserved opinion until getting a better look, before making statments of wrong doing and calling authoritys and trashing a guys name without merit.
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<br>Mistakes are made, yes. But I couldn't help but feel he was right at home doing this, almost to the point of enjoying it...and I'm told this is not the first time. So forgive me if I don't jump on the "we love art" band wagon.
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<br>I feel being a professional outfotter, and regarded highly among some of you, he should certainly have hamdled himself better and with more class than he did.
<br>But what do I know, right?
<br>Deerslayer

"hamdled himself"? Sorry I couldn't help myself. Granted it's not nearly as funny as that "let sleeping Dougs lie" over at Moosie's that was a classic!!!

for the sake of peace why don't we just let this tread die. you were wronged slayer and we said so let's just leave it. tom

And one more thing...I just scrolled back......ALL the pix are there, in tact, so I'm not sure what your saying. But hey, I told Rick you were ever admit you were wrong, your to good at judging sheep for that, after all it's your business right?
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<br>You show that pic to any wildlife agent in Alaska and they will laugh at you when you say you think it a 5 year ols 3/4 curl,no brooming.......but you already realize that, thus, your red "x"...........
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<br>One thing I am sure of.........the masses you had going with your expertise now realize after looking at side views of my sheep know that you made an error, so whether you want to admit it or not is irrelevant.
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<br>Have a good day,
<br>DS

Art...I'm reminded that you said in your reply to Oscar that "the pic showed an illegal ram"...and went on to say "the ram was no more than 5 years old"
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<br>....you didn't say then that the pic wasn't a clear view.......you simply said "the pic showed an illegal ram"
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<br>So I was just wanting to hear if you stand by your proffessional judgement?
<br>DS

Yeah Pumpgun..that's convienent.
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<br>Art has not said it, and he was the one so hell bent on the fact I killed a 5 year old 3/4 curl ram.
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<br>I think after all the defamation he posted, he could at least pony up some sort of explanation.........why suddenly should the thread be dropped before the man gets a chance to say whether ..."in his expert opinion" he stands by his original judgement or if he plans to alter it in light of evidence he was grossly out of line is his VERY vocal judgments.
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<br>DS

Maybe Art didn't come across well in his question, but, the rehashing of this is getting to be geniune bull#$t. Nice ram, premature judgment based upon a photo angle that didn't show the ram in its true light. Shake hands and talk hunting.
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<br>Just my professional opinion.
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<br>2nd

Slayer:
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<br>The pics weren't appearing this morning when I checked. Your photo host was down. But they're there now.
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<br>I think the general commentary on Art reflects a body of contribution over the course of years that stands him well with the rest of us. Bottom line: He has credit in his account in spades. Whether this episode adds or detracts is still to be decided, but I strongly doubt he'd need to empty his coffers.
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<br>Let's let it pan out.
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<br>Rick
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I read this thread with interest, and am so happy that there are web sites that suit different personalities and that they so rarely cross over. Probably genetically impossible.

Fine Rick..........I said would never apologize, you said you thought he would surprise me..........makes no differance.
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<br>As far as I'm concerned...I'll leve my sheep judging to mu brother who obviously knew what he was talking about.
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<br>Had I gone with Art, this magnificent ram would still be grazing atop a skope high in Alaska somewhere.
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<br>I won't post on it again.....unless Art gets itchy with the keyboard again.
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<br>I know he missed this one badly, and you do to.
<br>What he "knows" is really moot after that.......
<br>DS

Yes, let's get on with life. Nice ram. Thanks for posting the side view, which confirms what only the third of the original pics suggests, that it is full curl. I was in on an almost identically sized Stone ram one time and like BW said, this close to full curl it makes a fellow cautious about dropping the hammer, or at least it did my partner and me. Good on you for making sure. Note to self: never use a hunter's photos as a disccusion point on how to field judge an animal. It is far too emotional for the hunter. We followed the Stone and glassed him for two hours, along with another that was just a hair under full, and frankly, it was a relief to me to find him comfortably past full curl after my more confident young partner shot him. Sounds like you had a great hunt in great country, good adventure and you have what is probably the most beautiful trophy in North America. Again, congratulations.

Slayer
<br>Just got to look at the pictures for the first time. While those who do not know will at first roll thier eyes at what I am about to say... here goes.
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<br>The ram is marginal, if full, and very near the numbers I stated in the beginning.
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<br>By way of proof, today I will take some photos of similar-size sheep angled exactly as you did your's. I have a number to choose from that are very close to your sheep. I will run them to the 1-hour photo and let the nay-sayers take a look at several angles and see how many call the various sheep photos correctly.
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<br>I trust I will have someone volunteer to post the photos for me, as I do not have that capability.
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<br>The bottom line is this, there are many 14"X38 1/2" sheep in the book, yours obviously is not close to that category and you did not correct that posting, if it was wrong... The side view clearly shows a sheep significantly shorter than 38 1/2." Take a look at the photo Stick posted and the size number for those bases. It isn't rocket science.
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<br>The sheep is not old enough to be legal by age... 5 or 6 is still the right number based on size. They are easy to age in hand, all of them.
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<br>I conceded the brooming issue to you already, I jumped the gun there with insufficient evidence to make the call, I apologize for that. Age has nothing to do with accidental breakage however, and the sheep we are looking at did not "broom" that horn off to keep it from blocking his eyesight as some suggest they do, but rather, somehow managed to break a horn.
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<br>The ram could be legal, still, but there is not a clear enough proof of it to call it a shooter... there is NO excess horn beyond a full curl.
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<br>I apologize to all who believe there is proof positive in the new photos, and hope that I am able to show those who still doubt, exactly what I mean.
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<br>If this sheep was measured by a representative of ADF&G I will still happily contact them for further info and accept their tape.
<br>art
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Art, I didn't jump on this thread, even though, like you, I didn't think the sheep was broomed or a full curl. The subsequent pictures haven't persuaded me my initial impressions were all wrong... the subsequent "full curl side" was shot from below, making it look like a full curl... it still may be full, just doesn't look it to me... my honest 2 cents. Brooming is minimal. If you post critter's on the internet you may get challenged... that's life. I've also got to say Art, it was more than a little pathetic how many bailed on you, all the foul language, etc. We all make mistakes in posting (Lord knows I've done my share) but you still have my respect regardless what some of these cowards may say. I'm sincerely glad Mr. Slayer had a great hunt and a good time in beautiful AK and will take his word he's got a full curl ram.
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<br>Brad

One minute I can see the pics and the next I can't.
<br>Must be the server.

I,m a new guy here. I have read the entire thread, I don't know any of the parties involved so My view is unbiassed.
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<br>I don't condone the foul language that was used, that should have been left out.
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<br>I do believe that sitka has been proved wrong and that the best course to end this whole debate would be for him to be a man and appologize.
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<br>Sitka did indeed start the whole episode by making statements about the rams legality, age, not being a trophy, ect ect. and even so far as implying that DS should be prosecuted.
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<br>Maybe the thing to have done would have been to ask nicely for more pictures before making the statements that were made.
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<br>I think that at this point pride and stubbornness is in the way of good judgement, It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong.
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<br>Sitka, you would gain my respect and that of others if you step up and do the right thing.
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<br>Thanks
<br>Mike...

Sitka
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<br>"The ram could be legal, still, but there is not a clear enough proof of it to call it a shooter... there is NO excess horn beyond a full curl"
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<br> There doesn't seem to be enough proof for the doubters that it isn't either. Based on such marginal proof to prove your beliefs it would seem your making a strong stand on shaky ground. This whole things seems to be a lot about nothing. I think only a very inexperienced fool would post a illegal ram, I don't know the shooter, and his foul lanquage aside, he doesn't seem a inexperienced fool. I think this whole thing has become a pissing contest in a strong wind. dempsey

I have rethought and deleted my response. I will just use a quote from Rodney, "Can't we just all get along".
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<br>There are far better topics of discussion.
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<br>2nd

2nd amen,
<br> I post on several sites, the most being at monster muleys, and jazzfanz, Like I said in my post I do not know DS, have never chatted with him, never hunted with him, never met him, Yes on that forum I said what I thought, Here I was trying to be civil, And not burn bridges. Do I stand by what I have said?? Yes I DO, and I in all honesty am trying to be as unbiased as possible.
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<br>Man that was just plain wrong to trash on somebody that was obviously proud of their animal, and obviously worked their butt off to get it.
<br>Sitka could have approached the whole matter alot better and avoided this whole thing.
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<br>Will I ever post a picture of an animal I harvest on this board? I would probably have reservations.
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<br>It is so obvious that the ram is legal
<br>#1. only an idjit would post illegal animals pics.
<br>#2. the pics are there for you to see it is legal.
<br>#3. he stated that fish and game checked it, If it was illegal well he wouldn't even have it to post pictures of.
<br>#4. by stating that thefish and game should look at it AFTER he stated that they already had, is in effect calling him a liar.
<br>I believed him when he said it had been checked.
<br>At that point sitka could have said, "well if it is good enough for the fish and game guys that checked it, it is good enough for me, congrats on a fine animal", Butt no he and others on the board kept right up questioning everything about the ram from its age to the size of its horns, brromed not broomed, ect ect ect,
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<br>My question to all of you is WHY???
<br>Why not offer a congrats to a fine animal, and a fine hunt???
<br>All you nay sayers have done is further divide what should be a brotherhood of hunters, I believe that we should give each other the benefit of the doubt.
<br>When DS said the animal passed inspection, all the questioning should have stopped, and the pats on the back for a great accomplishment should have started.
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<br>I say shame on all of you...