|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,268 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,268 Likes: 2 |
Lets get this forum breathing a bit of fire. Alright Men, hunting season is fast approaching, whatcha casting, patching and loading. What are you guys planning on hunting/ killing with your Sharps rifles this season? Myself, I'll be gunning for deer, pigs and a bison.
Trump Won!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
I'm still waiting for mine, so when it shows up, I might smack a deer with it. Or maybe a Nilgai
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269 |
Casting up a bunch of 44s' today. Anything legal wif fur or hair gets nailed this year
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896 |
Only deer hunting for now the way it looks.. Just picked up some pure lead from my supplier the other day as it's running low so this is on my agenda first.. To make more of these for the 45/110...My gun shoots most of these to a relative POI which makes it difficult to choose but final choice will depend on weather conditions at deer camp in Nov. Presently the nod goes to the PH for greasers and my new custom 530gr FN for PP. Left to right 485 gr Parker Hale 525 gr Gov't 500 gr LL PP [gifted from sharpsguy and "long lance" as jorge pinned it] 530 gr PP flat nose [new custom] 500 gr Brooks PP [jorge's mold on loan] Decisions,decisions
You better be afraid of a ghost!!
"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops
Woody
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,268 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,268 Likes: 2 |
SWEET!!!!! looking good men.
Hell Yes on the nilgai and Sharps Tex, hope you make it happen.
ET, my sentiments exactly, if it's brown, it's down. lol
Good deal on the fresh castings Woody, I'm about completed on my Sharps rifle casting and bullet sizing room, Wifey bought me a nice fan to sit by my melting pot to blow the fumes away from my lungers. lol
Trump Won!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,867
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,867 |
Hell, I stay ready with a couple hundred rounds loaded and ready to go. For me, it's the 45-70 and either a 480 grain paper patched bullet like Woody's Long Lance, or a 507 grain Govt. bullet. I ALWAYS have two or three of the Parker Hales in my pocket just in case.
Deer, hogs, and most of all, bison. I am seriously thinking about taking the bison at 400 yards or better to make a point. I know I can double lung it at that distance with barrel sights, and I also know the Sharps will shoot all the way through it with black powder. So, why the hell not? I have killed animals a lot smaller than a bison a lot farther than 400 yards in Africa with a Sharps with barrel sights, and I have a ranch owner that wants to see it done, so I guess it's showtime. I can't wait.
Last edited by sharpsguy; 09/07/14.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,268 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,268 Likes: 2 |
Well hell yeah Sharpsguy, you're like lunchmeat, always ready.
Trump Won!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,194 Likes: 18
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,194 Likes: 18 |
Any you fellas ever use a swag for the paper patch? Thinking hammer dies...
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 163
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 163 |
Don't hunt any more due to a medical malady, or rather now that I am "at that age", I should say medical maladies.
Spent time this afternoon cutting patches and wrapping bullets.
Noticed the lead supply is getting low, so time to make a "re-supply run" for lead and tin before the price increases anymore.
Sharpsguy, keeps us posted on the hunt. And before you leave, make sure the camera is working properly....
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,867
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,867 |
Ray, I think I will see if I can get Gunner to go with me so HE can run the camera.
DD, I believe that you can make a more accurate bullet by casting than you can with a hammer swage die.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,275
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,275 |
Any you fellas ever use a swag for the paper patch? Thinking hammer dies... There are a few folks that swage the bullets, but mostly in hydraulic press. All of the old dead guys that were in the top shooters of the day used factory swaged bullets from Winchester, Remington and Sharps
the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to. www.historicshooting.com
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,825 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,825 Likes: 3 |
I've been on the road and then trying to catch up on ranch chores, so my casting and shooting are a bit behind. I need to blend some lead & tin and get to casting some more 457121PH and Lyman 457125's. I did a little scouting a couple of days ago and not seeing much sign. No hog sign at all and most of the deer sign looks like does & fawns. There is so much feed and water around here that they are just not traveling. I wound up with a Johnson Design Specialties "Quick Measure" that is guaranteed to not cut powder kernels and with (supposedly) benchrest precision. I'm going to try it with BP and see how it throws charges. If it works, I'll make it my dedicated BP measure. Plans are to hunt Whitetail here and then take a trip to Kansas in December to try to fill the freezer. The Shiloh will be the rifle of choice. Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 383 |
I think a lot of us have a drawer full of moulds good and bad shooting bullets I know that I have. mine come in all shapes from wad cutters for my rifles to the sleek prolates. But the bullet I use the most is of the original Sharps and several other old manufactures used. Below is one I swage using the RCE swage press and dies. I had Richard make this die for me amd I have moulds for the .44's and .40's I took two Bisons using this bullet in the .44-77 and the .44-2-5/8 bn. The big .44 bn put him down with one shot and the .44-77 I had had to use two because the first just took out the top of the lungs and part of his spine. But they all kicked up sand when they passed through. I have used these bullets past 1000 yards and I was never disappointed on how they performed. I think that's why they where so common in the past.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,194 Likes: 18
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,194 Likes: 18 |
DD, I believe that you can make a more accurate bullet by casting than you can with a hammer swage die.
I respectfully disagree in context of intended application. I quest for a new bullet for a rather ancient .50 caliber bullet gun. I have watched a number of very capable shooters go both ways with these relics and ultimately the winners use swagged bullets, usually cast as a slug then swagged in hammer dies. Some are Chase patched and others like my own are strip patched.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,867
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,867 |
This is shaping up to be a good thread with a lot of different aspects to it. The OP originally posed the question as to whether a HAMMER swaged bullet was the way to go. And, as Ranch said, the ODGs used swaged bullets for their long range work. They, and the buffalo runners that shot factory ammo, shot swaged bullets made at the factory IN LARGE QUANTITIES in presses. Swaged bullets were used by the factories simply due to manufacturing expediency, as it is much easier to make large quantities of bullets in an automatic swaging machine than it is to cast them.
However, and as Kurt will tell you, while a press swaged bullet can be a very good bullet, it is often more difficult to precisely control the weight of a press swaged bullet than it is a bullet that is cast. Swages don't always bleed the excess lead off in a consistent manner, and close weight control is sometimes a problem when swaging. Good cast bullets--and note that I said GOOD cast bullets--can be remarkably consistent for weight, and if handled and treated properly, can shoot with any swaged bullet.
Which brings us to the HAMMER swaged bullet. The hydraulic or mechanical press uses a uniform amount of pressure to push the slug into the swaging die. The hammer swage, on the other hand, is dependent on the force of the hammer blow on the punch to form the base and shape the sides and nose. And this is where the rub comes in. It is virtually impossible to hit the punch exactly the same way and with exactly the same amount of force from one bullet to the next, and a bullet should be formed with one precise blow in a hammer swage, not with several successive applications of the hammer. Bases and skirts do not get formed with the same relentless precision with a hammer swage as they do from a press. I would suggest and submit that the guys that win the most using hammer swaged bullets are, among other things, better and more consistent with their hammer technique when they make their bullets than their fellow shooters.
Cast bullets have their shortcomings as well, but these shortcomings are much easier to identify and address. They are also easier to make without the expenditure of a fairly large sum of money than press swaged bullets.
That is a neat old outfit you have there, BTW.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 383 |
My cast bullets when the mould is up to temperature are very consistent in weight. By average there are more in the pile that weigh exactly the same then the other pile that is 4/10's from light to the heavy end so I don't weigh them anymore. I save the cold mould bullets and throw them in a coffee can and those get used for the swaged bullets and when I run them through the swage dies I adjust the core swage die so it swages the core about 5 gr lighter than the cast bullet this will fill the wrinkles and like Sharps said there will be some weight difference between 0 and 3/10's in the core weight. You also have to be consistent swaging the bullet like you do casting the bullet. It takes so long for the lead to bleed through the bleed off hole in the swage die to get the exact weight if you want it but the core will be with out voids unlike a cast bullet can be. You can double or triple raise the ran when you swage and this will get the core exactly the same weight. I can take a swaged bullet that weighs 8-10 grains more that came out of the swage die as long as the core fully blead off and I will see the same impact down range on paper. This much weight difference makes no difference with a swaged bullet. This is something you cant do with a cast bullet with that much weight difference. A hammer swaged bullet can vary in weight depending how close you cut the extruded lead wire or cast the core in weight but running the core through the hammer swage you will have weight differences but you will have a bullet with out voids and it will also be a consistent diameter and it will shoot well. There are a lot of advantages swaging the bullets but a well cast bullet will shoot just as well as a well swaged bullet.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,268 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,268 Likes: 2 |
I'm liking this schooling, nice piece DD, and please carry on men.
Trump Won!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,636 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,636 Likes: 2 |
Going to try the big Gov't greasers on unsuspecting hogs this year I think. Those and some of the 500gr Brooks PPs...And like Sharpsguy says, always have a few PHs in my pocket on "alert"...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,194 Likes: 18
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,194 Likes: 18 |
Kurt, a bullet formed in a hammer die that was originally cast will neither gain or lose weight. I don't do this with lead wire.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 383 |
DD
I did say that the hammer swage bullet will vary in weight. "A hammer swaged bullet can vary in weight depending how close you cut the extruded lead wire or cast the core"
But again I have seen double punch hammer swage dies that have a tapered bleeder hole in the nose punch and a stop edge on the punch to hold consistent length's and weights.
Your under hammer, Who was it made by?
Kurt
|
|
|
|
517 members (007FJ, 12344mag, 06hunter59, 10gaugemag, 160user, 1beaver_shooter, 59 invisible),
2,676
guests, and
1,188
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,644
Posts18,512,469
Members74,010
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|