Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Hunting over bait...

pond you are mostly right IMO. However when the rut is on all bets are off.

What a feed plot, feeder etc does is concentrate the does in an area. The more does around the more likely it is that one or more of them will be in estrus.

Bucks will go where the does are.

If they are just feeding then, yeah, old blue ain't coming in daylight. If he is on the prod he just might.

If you can situate your food source where you can watch an area around it you will do more good at killing a nice one than if you just concentrate on the immediate area.


BCR

I don't think anyone should be required to hunt over bait if they don't want to. I on the other hand should be free to lawfully persue game any way I can without some self-important fool passing judgement. To me they are in the same category as the antihunters.

Same category as anti-hunters? Really? That sounds just a little harsh to me.

A lot of times it is just what the history of the region has ingrained into the hunters. Where I come from being caught baiting bear will allow you the priviledge of donating your 4 wheel drive and rifle to the DNR. And why is it that the law stays like it is? Because that is the way most of the hunting population wants it.

I'll be real blunt here. Bear hunting over bait is too easy for two reasons. In terms of a stable huntable population you can only allow baiting if there are a lot of bear relative to the amount of hunters. You allow baiting in a lot of places and you would have to go to draw permits because your odds of killing one would skyrocket.

It gives hunting a black eye in the minds of many non-hunters who really have nothing against hunting per se. Look around at how the politics of hunting plays out around the country. People look at the hunting of large predators very differently than they do prey animals.

People, as a group, tend to believe that an animal like a black bear should be worked for. And deserves better than being blasted while greasing its chops on corn and little debbie snack cakes. This is why this issue always goes against baiting when the public votes on it.

Now you might counter that hunting with a pack like I do is not much of a challenge either. It seems to lose at the ballot box too. In one way I'll agree with you, the shooting part is easy. As a matter of fact the killing part is so anti-climatic that my group almost never shoots one anymore in spite of the fact that we have a damned fine group of dogs who put some very respectable bears up a tree on a fairly regular basis. Like just last saturday night.

Building the pack is the real challenge. That and learning how to keep up with the dogs. Start from scratch, like we did, and you'll be lucky to have a decent pack in 4 or 5 years. I don't know how many thousands of hours were invested in getting to the point we are at now. I wish I did.

This notion of 'working for the bear' is obviously in the minds of the folks who decide the game law as well. It is also illegal to hire a guide to hunt black bears in this state. No showing up and sitting over a bucket that someone else has loaded for 6 weeks training the bear to come in to.

In the end there just aren't enough black bears in most eastern states to allow baiting without going to draw permits. And that will cause a stink like you would not believe. People like their right to go out and do it the hard way with steeper odds rather than do it the easy way but only every few years.

Will

Penquin let me ask you a question. No ulterior motive just that I an ignorant about bears and bear dogs and the law where you are.

You say your state, where ever it is, doesn't allow baiting. How about natural bait.

Sort of like the federal law does not allow baiting for doves but you can hunt over a harvested grain field.

So could you hunt over a fruit tree or what ever is ripe when bear season comes on? How about a dead cow or hog?

Not an arguement or trying to make one just a search for knowledge.


BCR

"That sounds just a little harsh to me. "
Why? It simply boils down to someone deciding what someone else should or should not do. I personally would not hunt bears or big cats with dogs, but if it is legal in your state I don't have a problem with you doing it. My point is, if the game laws allow it then I'll do it if I want to and not do it if I have a problem with it period. I don't care how you legally hunt and you shouldn't care how anyone else legally hunts. Like Stick said right off, worry about your own hunt.

How is hunting over bait different than:

1. Hunting over a man-made water source

2. Hunting over a man-made food source (crop field)

3. Hunting in a terrain feature, that forces animals to travel certain paths (whether man-made or natural)

4. Hunting in a man-made treestand / blind / etc.

5. Hunting with man-made chemicals to mask your scent, camo clothes, rangefinders, super-big scopes that let you see to the very edge of dusk.... heck, driving to your hunting area in a man-made truck, and of course, your rifle didn't grow out of the ground, did it? And neither did your boots.....

It is all just degrees of advantage over the critter. NOBODY and I mean nobody hunts without an edge over the critter. They'd starve.

Mike: VERY well said.

We (the hunting community) need to get over this mindset of: "my way is the right way and the only way, and if you do it differently, you are less a man than I am"

It's commendable to stick to the principles that you were raised with (which fit your geographical area), but don't be too quick to judge those from other areas who do (by choice or necessity) things differently...

Chessieguy: Man someone always tells you what you can and can't do. Whether you are driving to work, on the job, or disciplining the kids there is a group of laws that govern our behavior. And hunting is no different.

And we have morals imposed on us while hunting both from inside and outside the hunting community. Whether it be chasing animals with helicoptors or ATVs, poisoning predators, spot lighting deer, caliber choice, or another of a myriad issues related to hunting technique, we are always dealing with issues that affect how we are allowed to hunt.

The issue isn't whether you can use a technique that is legal, of course you can. None of my business, although I may judge the method to be sporting or unsporting depending on the method and my own biases. The issue is one of whether some methods are deemed legal or not, and whether it is deemed so because of safety, tradition, fair chase, or an intentional lessening of the odds of success in order to allow a broader base of hunters to pursue a game animal. And I maintain that baiting bears in a lot of the eastern united states falls into this last category.

You cannot have hunts where baiting is employed without substantially reducing hunting opportunities. There are just too many willing hunters and not enough bears. Hunting bears goes from being extremely difficult and preparation intensive to being pretty damned simple.

You'd be forced to severely limit tags to maintain consistent and maintainable kill numbers.

It seems that anytime someone disagrees with another persons views around here the first thing to do is to imply they are a novice who doesn't know what he is talking about. If that fails then you imply that he is a borderline anti-hunter. Then if all else fails trot out the old 'we all gotta stick together routine'.

Well I am no novice, I vote pro-gun and pro-hunting and always have, and I'll tell you right now that we can have differences of opinion that affect how we hunt without the sky falling down on us. I merely tried to explain to you WHY baiting of bears is illegal and why a substantial number of eastern hunters like myself will fight to ensure it remains so.

Will

I don't and won't hunt over a set bait. If someone wants to hunt over bait, fine, as long as you are within the bounndries of the law. The thing that worries me about hunting over bait is the message sent to the younger hunters. A friend of mine is a teacher and has alot of classes that have hunters in them. He is surprised by how many of them think that to go hunting the first thing you do is go buy a bag of corn and put it out the night before. He asks these kids if they hunt any other way and their usual reply is no, we don't know how to.
He wonders what happened to going out and scouting and the such?

"Well I am no novice, I vote pro-gun and pro-hunting and always have, and I'll tell you right now that we can have differences of opinion that affect how we hunt without the sky falling down on us. I merely tried to explain to you WHY baiting of bears is illegal and why a substantial number of eastern hunters like myself will fight to ensure it remains so."

I really don't need nor do I want you explaining anything to me. What I want is to be able to travel to different areas to hunt different types of game using locally acceptable and legal methods without some self proclaimed expert giving me $hit. That really shouldn't be too much to ask. I understand that everyone has an opinion on how other people should act in every conceivable aspect of their lives, I just think they should keep it to themselves.

And just who is stopping you?

Me? I haven't said one damned word about stopping you from hunting in any state in any legal manner you find. Just remember that the people you demean as 'self proclaimed experts' and 'borerline anti-hunters' run the ship, not you. They decide what is considered moral, ethical, and legal in their states, not you.

And on a personal note don't brag in my presence about the 'trophy' black bear you shot over bait. I'll laugh at you.

Will

"Just remember that the people you demean as 'self proclaimed experts' and 'borerline anti-hunters' run the ship, not you."

The person I was refering to was you, and you don't run any ship I'm on.


"And on a personal note don't brag in my presence about the 'trophy' black bear you shot over bait. I'll laugh at you."


I never brag and I don't ever plan to intentionally be in your presence.

That, sir, is a damned lie.

You stated categorically that you wished to be free to bait legally without QUOTE: some self important fool UNQUOTE passing judgement on you. Further that you considered those who did so to be QUOTE: borderline anti-hunters UNQUOTE.

In other words anyone who disagees with the tactic is a self important fool and a borderline anti-hunter. You didn't single me out, you jumped into the conversation with a know-it-all arrogance and judgmental temperment. You passed judgement on anyone who disagreed with the tactic.

And I'll tell you without one doubt in the world that this group you have maligned is the overwhelming majority of the bear hunters in my state. Stump hunters that want to buy a tag, traipse into the state, and shoot a bear over a bucket they didn't even have to take the time to fill are considered lazy and incompetent by most every bear hunter I know.

So I guess the animosity is mutual isn't it?

Will

PS: Have a good day. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

"So I guess the animosity is mutual isn't it?"

No, I'm more animos than you are! Your turn.

Hey Chess:

You weren't by any stretch hunting in Roberval in PQ when you took your trophy bear were you.

I just returned from Lac St. Jean where I fished for ouananiche, with bait, and the locals were talking about a big guy with thick glasses and gray hair who shot a monster bear. I saw pics in the local stores and watering holes, and I'll agree that the beast is a trophy.

BTW, was that bear especially cautious? I ask because there were several notices posted about bears with tricky noses. Just curious.

Best,

Bob

Yeah Bob that was me, but the hair is silver not gray and the glasses only look thick in the picture. We actually had quite a crowd at the guides skinning facility when we showed up the next morning. I don't know what everyone was saying because I don't understand French but it must have had something do do with my great shooting skills because they kept pointing at me and whispering and smiling. Unfortunately we had to cut our visit short because my buddy Dave, who thinks he understands French better than he does, mistook the barmaid's screaming "he's coming, he's coming" for "I'm coming, I'm coming." So ends another Canadian adventure.

Baiting any animal isn't Hunting its going to the range and shooting paper that walks and bleads.

tho i will readily admit we Bait and Shoot(not hunt) Pig all we can. the dang things rip apart stuff around here way to much. and bread like rabits. besides slightly fatter pigs just makes for more sausage.

i'd agree with Baiting Varmint or animals that are causing harm or hazzard, but not for SPORT hunting.

to properly sport hunt you need to learn to out think your prey(not feed it). the out perform your prey by getting ahead of its path or learn its regular paths.

if you want to shoot a feeder come kill pigs,,,if you want to Hunt break out your hiking boots and leave the Seat in the truck. oh and be ready to break a sweat

Do you know how many times you just contradicted yourself with that post???

GEEZUZ

More to come..

Opinions like that just divide us hunters. Ifya dont advocate said food baiting method, fine, but dont condone others who do it.

BTW, as I posted earlier (scroll up) -- calling, rattling, rubbing, scraping, as well as using doe piss & other estrus scents is baiting. All are forms of baiting (trying to lure)

Lay off the food as "bait" arguement to be wrong.

I've had my fill of the hunters who play into the hands of PeTa and the [bleep] they stand for.

Killing is killing.

20 years from now we will have hunters saying that the spot and stalk method is unethical. Geeze..

I just love it when some one knows about a style of hunting that has never done it. In many areas of Canada it is impossible to stalk bears so baiting is the only pratical method. If you don't like baiting then don't do it period for any type of hunting. I have sat for days on bait & fed the bugs, sweated, been rained on, cold at times, & most often not seen an adult bear. Easy my a$$. When that big bear finally just seems to materialize out of the mist no one can tell me thats not a rush.