Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Dakota going belly up..?

Not many stock blanks are worth $2,000, but a lot of $500 blanks are worth $2,000 after a Goudy, Biesen or Echols gets finished shaping and checkering them. Dakota already has synthetic stocked rifles for under $2,000, if wood turns you off.

Lee24, is there anything that you are not an expert in??????

Man, am I behind the times�I didn�t even know Echols made stocks�


On the subject of Dakota. Their core competency was to make ultra-high quality pre-64 Model 70�s, which they still do. The question then becomes, are they worth $4,000.00?

When you compare apples to apples, you�ll find that you could most certainly beat that price by going the custom route with a �donor� action. The problem is, to beat that price, you have to become the �project manager� and farm out each step to the craftsmen of your choice. When you are done, you�ll have a rifle that is every bit as good as a Dakota, for about $500.00 less. Only problem is, since you are the project manager, the gun isn�t the work of any �known� rifle builder, and as such, is worth about half of what you now have into it on the market.

If you went to a first class rifle builder, you�ll end up paying about the same price as a Dakota. If you buy a Dakota; along with a first rate rifle, you get a marketable name behind it.

So, they�re probably worth it, but I�ll admit, they�re outside my price range. I�m happy with a plane old pre-64 Winchester for my hunting needs. If I�m going to spend 4k on a gun, it will be something really cool like a drilling�But that�s just me.

I've owned two Dakota rifles, and they were both dogs that wouldn't shoot.

To me, and I've been getting custom rifles put together for over 25 years, Dakota is for the guy who basically understands the FORM of a fine custom rifle, but not the SUBSTANCE thereof.

For about the same money as Dakota, a guy like Roger Biesen will build a better rifle with a better-designed and finished stock, and for considerably more than Dakota, a guy like Gene Simillion will build a rifle that's much, MUCH better, and from every standpoint of consideration.

The guys who don't know the real players in the custom rifle game will gravitate to Dakota because of name recognition (those full-page ads and that network of selected dealers is good for SOMETHING, after all!), while the guys who really known who the top custom riflemakers are will largely dimiss Dakota out of hand.............

AD

As said, Dakota does have more resell value than most custom rifles, as they should, being built to sell off the shelf. You have to be sure of what you want to buy a truly custom firearm, and most people are not. And, if it suits you to a T, why spend more? A lot of people who buy fancy firearms don't take them into the field, or only in nicest weather. They just enjoy having a Kimber 84 over a synthetic 700 ADL, and someone else wants a Dakota over a Kimber. Some people are crushed if their rifle doesn't shoot tight groups with something, even if they only hunt at less than 100 yards from a ladder stand, because they are trying to impress their friends, instead of buying the best tool for their hunting.

You can get a custom M700 in a piece of plastic for $2000. A sweet shootin' highly accurized M700 action and a mighty fine piece of plastic at that. Try and sell it for that after you run a few rounds through it. Aint easy. Hell, it will cost you $1500 and typically more to have a GOOD stock maker finish the blank YOU provided for the custom wood stock! Waffenfabrik Hein's cheapest action with the round bridge is $2000!

I don't think that the man who builds, restores, and/or owns fine cars does so to impress his friends. I think he does it because he finds something beautiful in the finished product and/or pleasure in the work. I don't think the custom, wood stocked, CRF rifle is any different. There is something awe-striking about a finely crafted action/bottom metal perfectly fit and finished with a nicely contoured barrel dressed with well crafted iron-sights.....all put together and Christened with a stunning blue. Drop that in a beautifully checkered, finished, one-of-a-kind figured walnut stock and you have something with value that can't be measured by currency alone. It rarely happens at $4000! Dakota was offering a compromise that I feel was a solid concept. Sure they're wood is a bit over-priced, but still a bargain, not to mention time saver, to the process of having a name like D'Arcy Echols do the job for you on a similar quality blank. I also still believe that the fit and finish of the Dakota action is head and shoulders above the pre-'64 M70 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. Dakota may have spent too much time and money on other things besides getting a finely made rifle out to the consumer, but their ability to produce a top-shelf, semi-custom rifle certainly wasn't the genesis of their financial woes. If one feels that a custom rifle built of stainless steels, high tech synthetics, ceramic coatings, and high dollar triggers is all that a custom rifle should be, so be it. The good news for them is that there are un-chartered waters out there waiting to put a euphoric glaze over their eyes when they see them. AND until then, they're not really rifle loonies, they just like guns! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I mean that with a light-hearted spirit. I am not trying to sound ugly or as if I know more than ANYONE on this forum. Just my humble take on the subject for fun.

Disclaimer: Some of the information found in this post is factual. Some of the information is my humble opinion. Some of the information was simply pulled from my arse!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Good points, OCC.

I didn't mean to imply that every buyer of a Dakota or fine car did it to impress friends, but that some people buy name brands like Rolex and Mercedes and Dakota because they trust the brand, even though they may not be able to judge the quality for themselves.

I have owned one Dakota, because I got a great deal on it. It was a Beretta Mato, used for a catalog shoot and salesman's sample. I have owed pre-64 Model 70s, and this was a better rifle all the way around. I am more into older hunting rifles, like Al Biesen, Paul Jaeger, Niedner, Mannlicher, 1920s Oberndorf Mausers, unknown small smiths, and the 1960s Austrians. Just my taste, and most people would think I am a dummy for using such stuff, especially with iron sights or vintage Kahles and Zeiss scopes. I sure hope Dakota makes it, and I hope someone finds a way to bring back Winchester around its core products.

Allen Day -- Ditto on all accounts.

Added - the Biesens have a beautiful 35 Whelen on their web site 80% done for 4500 IIRC. You chose bolt pattern and checkering style.

Also some nice Mausers but in 280 Remington.

Resale of custom guns has nothing to do with the quality. The only reason you cannot sell them for a lot is because someone would just build thier own if they were to give you what you paid for it, or close to it.

If I wanted a custom rig, I would not pay someone $1750 for theirs, when I can build my own to my specs for $2000.

That is the beauty of a custom rig though, you build it exactly as you want it, not as Dakota thinks it should be.

Todays paper has an article on Dakota Arms. Basically, it says Dakota Arms is filing Chapter 11; they will continue to operate, take order and fill existing orders and no one will lose their jobs. They expect to be out of bankruptcy in 6-12 months.

Maybe they are just reorganizing debt to get a shot at taking over the production of Winchester M70's.......you know, for us low end folk!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I agree with you completely!! I have a custom .338 Winchester Magnum built on a Dakota 76 action with a Krieger SS Match Grade barrel and a Mcmillan stock. The whole rifle is plated with hard chrome and it cost me $3000.00 dollars. I know that was expensive but I know the fiberglass stock will not shift or the steel will not rust under the worst of hunting conditions. I saved some money and got exactly what I want in a hunting rifle! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If only it were true

Sorry. My last post was to respond to Huntr not flatpicker.

Renault bought control of Nissan,and turned it around.Take a look at the new Altima,then the latest Audi A-4,both are very European styled.