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Better than things the X is pointed at...................

Is still controversial?

I thought we had all come to a consensus that:

1. Shot placement overcomes a plethora of bullet construction issues

2. Deer are easy to kill so it really doesn't matter what kind of bullet you use.

3. How a bullet performs on a deer is not much of an evaluation for how the bullet will do on heavier game.

4. The more frangible a bullet is the slower it needs to go when penetration is a concern.

5. The more toughly constructed a bullet is the faster it needs to impact when expansion is a concern

6. Neither lack of penetration nor under-expansion is desirable, but under-expansion is much better than lack of penetration

7. Use the bullet for the game it was designed, and keep the impact velocities where the bullet was designed to operate

That's why I drive X......................

Hard to argue with philosphy of driving a medium to light for caliber X at middle to high velocities. In fact, not only do I not argue with philosophy, I embrace it. I have only taken 4 animals--all hogs--with X bullets, but I become more imnpressed with them the more I use them, and the TSX is now the first bullet I try for any big game rifle.

I am especially "psyched" that my self-assembled, 8 lb w/scope, factory barreled 30-06 will drive a 168 TSX at 2980 fps (through my Oehler) into 3/4" groups. I cannot think of a North Amercian big animal it wouldn't work for (wouldn't be excited using it on a big bear), and for many animals it could be considered ideal...........

They'll dig and seal the deal....................

Blaine,

When you have hunted and killed as many critters as I have then you might understand. A 165gr NP will kill just as dead as your Xs, in some cases the dirt will come sooner.................

Stick,

Glad your uncle Clair is doing good, maybe he might manage to bag a critter this year using his crusty X bullits and BSA optics!

MtnHtr

I ahve always had good luck withthe partitons and never ecovered one from many deer. elk and bears. have not shot near asmuch game as many of you but it has always worked for me so i start there and work out. may try the x some day soon but working 160 AB's in my 7mm rum now, but if not stellar it will shoot the 150 partitons again thsi year and i will have no qualms about it

To disagree without being disagreeable: the Partition was designed for the front to 'come apart' and the partition part along with the ragged edges of the front jacket to continue on. This is exactaly what the AB was designed for also with a little less penetration. capt david <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

MtnHtr -

I'll accept that your resort to ad hominem attack is a concession that you've lost the logical argument.

I've read Noslers manuals #4 and #5, both of which I have. I agree with their assessment of BT's, am aware that they don't make a varmint BT in anthing larger than the .25" 75g variety (which I've used to take a fair number of coyotes with my Bob). and long ago made a decision not to use a BT on large game - never have and never will. But I've been in a lot of elk camps in the last 25 years and have seen what they - and other bullets - can do.

I'm also well aware that Partitions are a good bullet. The backup ammo for my 7mm Mag handloads for those 25 years has been (drum roll...) 160g Partitions loaded by Federal. These days I think there are better choices, something you obviously disagree with. That's OK, you shoot what you want, I'll shoot what I want. By the way, my preferred hunting load for my .30-30 is a (gasp!) 170g Partition RN.

By the way, using premiums DOES make me feel better and more confident, and I use them out of respect for my quarry. I've seen enough of what can happen with standard cup and core bullets when things go wrong, have seen more recovered Partitions than I think I should have, and don't mind spending an extra buck if it helps ensure things don't go wrong with MY animal. Lord knows the cost of the bullets (and my reloads with A-Frames, TSX and North Fork are on a par with standard cup and core fodder from the factories) is insignificant in relation to my other hunting costs.

Mtn,

Nice try. While I have only killed a little over 20 big game animals, I have access to the experiences of thousands of guys, and while I of course give the most weight to my own experience, the combined expereinces of thousands of hunters trumps any one man's experience, mine OR yours. Yours and my experiences are just small data points in the universe of hunting experience.................

BTW, I didn't say anything bad about Partitions. I have used Partitions in the past and they are on my list of approved bullets. A 250 grain NP from a 338 RUM took down a little bull elk very well, and that elk had been pushed hard. However, based on the results I have seen with the TSX, I am sure a 210 TSX from my 338 Win would have done as well or better.

I apologize if I pizzed CH, Blaine and anyone else off. I normally stay outta of these stupid bullet arguments since I base my bullet choices on my own experiences and folks I personally know. As was posted earlier we have choices and anyone here is welcome to hunt along the side of me with their X bullets, just be warned I may have to back ya up with my NPs! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (just had to throw that in there )

To each their own and may all of your shots be true..................<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

MtnHtr

Mtn,

You didn't offend anyone--crud, this is just about bullets on game and anyone who would get offended about someone making a different choice is a loser.

My biggest point is that ALL of us make our bullet choices on our own experiences and the expereince of folks we personally know. Many of us take that further and try to find out what the overall experience is for a given bullet and include that in the decision matrix.

Guys like you and Stick can credibly weigh your own experience against everyone else, while guys like me need to weigh other guys experiences as much as we weigh our own.

The Partition makes a bigger initial wound channel and spreads shrapnel... IME the Partition give quick kills.

The TSX will out-penetrate anything in its weight class and is a wonderful bullet, no doubt. However, Barnes lot-to-lot inconsistancy is madening and I still harbor nagging doubts about that little X air cavitiy and its ability to open up 100% of the time.

In the end I'm a Partition fan first and foremost... in my mind it's still the "best do it all bullet" (and I hate the word "best"). It gives a wonderful wound cavity, penetrates enough for any NA game, opens up at velocities lower than the TSX and is extremely consistant lot-to-lot (not to mention is extremely accurate in every rifle I own)... it's still the High Water Mark of bullet design IMO.

Brad-the lot to lot inconsistencies that you're talking about is with the old X's and not the TSX brand right..?

Thx

Dober

I have seen BTs grenade.

Shot a hog, maybe around 100, 125lbs, right in the shoulder with my .30-06, range about 80 yards. The 180gr. bullets chrono'd about 2750fps.

The round went into one shoulder, through the shoulder blade, put a fist-sized hole in the ribs, and literally made mush out of the interior of the critter. There was not one mark on the opposite side of the rib cage or diaphram, except for the green plastic tip which penetrated the farthest.

You could have poured out the contents of the chest cavity. In fact that's what we did.

This was not a very big pig and pig bones are much softer than deer, by the way.

There was no blood trail and it took about an hour of searching the brush to find Mr. Piggie.

Now... clearly it died, so at a certain level you can't fault performance. But.... they didn't penetrate much pig. What would have happened on a 200lb. deer or 200lb. hog? Honestly don't know.....

The only BT I ever recovered was in the neck of another small pig. It was stopped by the neck muscle, and did not even break the neck bones. Core-jacket separation, of course. Same box of handloads, too.....

So we're talking penetration of maybe 3-4 inches of muscle, and only very light bones....

I also shot a javelina end-to-end with the same load. No exit..... on a critter that might have weighed 40 or 45 lbs.

Word is that the newer BTs are a bit tougher. Someday I'll get around to trying them.

My father in law got a batch of 7mm BTs that were quite soft. His description of one of them was that it just blew up a fist-sized chunk of meat and didn't go in more than a few inches. He quit shooting deer with them, said they'd cut a coyote darn near in two from his .280.....

Funny thing, the 125gr. BTs in the my .30-06 were a heck of a lot tougher.

In the meantime, I have a box of 165gr. Partitions loaded up. Those work ALL the time on all the critters I hunt. Can't complain....

Brad,
Have you found lot to lot inconsistencies with the TSX's??

[Quote] by Brad
It gives a wonderful wound cavity, penetrates enough for any NA game, opens up at velocities lower than the TSX and is extremely consistant lot-to-lot (not to mention is extremely accurate in every rifle I own)... it's still the High Water Mark of bullet design IMO. [Quote]

How did you ascertain that the Partion opens at lower velocities than the TSX?

Mark, nope... I'm talking current TSX's. One lot of 168 TSX's group like varmint bullets in my 30-06... different lot sprayed. Micing them the ogive is different... this is from lot's less than a year apart.

Pisses me off...

I all fairness, I find the same thing with Sierra Matchkings and Bergers. Even good match bullets need to be sorted by ogive length. However, groups with ogies within .002" of each other shoot together very well. I haven't tried this with hunting bullets, maybe I should. I didn't want to have another thing to get pissed over <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.............

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Blaine in all seriousness, the Partition's group in all my rifles... lot-to-lot, year in, year out. TSX's work but are damned finicky.

I've moved on and gone back to the Partition... it's a known quantity that I'm comfortable with.