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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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WTH ever happened to that Jim In Idaho guy that once posted here?
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,897
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I thought it was Jim Ignore?? But seriously the diversity here is great. I'm with dubePA in the "shut up and listen" club. Grandfather and father both taught me alot with that philosophy. If some folks tend to be know it alls I can just as easily shut up and NOT listen. It is funny at times to see some folks play Mr. Maytag and agitate. Mostly though it's a good lesson in human nature just reading what others have to say...
One man with courage makes a majority....
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,579
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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11,534 members...11,534 unique personalities...11,534 opinions. Yet we suffer not much more than a pizzin' match once in a while.
What makes this place unique to anywhere I've seen so far is that all 11,534 members are allowed to voice whatever opinion they want to...or they don't, for whatever reason. Would be just another very boring place that resembles a crappy gun rag without that...and probably far fewer members as well.
What happens here is what folks want or they wouldn't join and post...you just need a thick skin some of the time...more often than not, folks make up and come to an understanding and all is well.
Take my very post here now for example with regards to the sentiment expressed so far in this thread...I don't visit "gun writers" much to make posts here cause I'm not a gun writer...and to be honest some of the topics discussed don't interest me at all. I cruz through and read a thread once in a while but in general I just go to what interests me elsewhere...
Yet, I post here now risking getting flamed for my opinion...so be it. I'm allowed to post here...no sign on the door saying I can't. But it does happen occasionally, to me and to others. I make my mistake by defending my opinion when that happens as others here feel they need to do also. Sometimes it gets ugly. If everyone here that posts is supposed to be an expert and the non posters just readers...then this place will die.
This continent we live on is a big place...the Campfire is a diverse cross section of it ALL. From wealthy professional hunter traveling far and away to the poor local guy who is lucky to hunt in his backyard let alone lucky enough to own a gun to hunt with. We got it all here...and it's a good thing. I know my turf and you know yours, sometimes the two views can't coincide due to geographical or social barriers even though we talk about the same thing. What works here might not work there and folks need to understand that and not flame a guy for wanting to voice an opinion on it.
When the dust settles though, there is collective knowledge which someone will learn from.
I've never been west of the Mississippi...never hunted elk or mule deer or big bears...but, I do as well as anyone in my environment. There are players and non players right here in my local...the Game Played though might not be on the same level as it is 3000 miles away. Doesn't mean I need to be ashamed or in awe...and it doesn't mean I need to be put down for it either.
Rifles...is where I do fall in awe...this place is full of toys I drool over. But, like many here of the 11,534 members...I've never had the ability to build custom gun after custom gun for the sake of custom guns. The cookies just don't fall right for some folks. So I/we do as best we can and learn how to get some darn good things going with stock gear...does that make us the Network Idiots?
No amount of Guru speak from the experts is gonna change the amount of cash flow it takes to build big dollar guns, but don't fault anyone for wanting to be part of the Game Played with basic tools. I kinda snicker a bit at reading what the expensive customs will do and know I got tweaked factory rigs that'll do the same thing. That's a concept a few here can't grasp, and I've been flamed for voicing that...but oh well.....
This place is all about hunting and guns...two things I hold dear to my being. I'd not be without any of it and greatly enjoy the ability to talk to others of like mind. The Campfire is a good place and the 11,534 members list is what makes it so.
![[Linked Image]](http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c66/wildswalker/siglinepic3.jpg)
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,259
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Since a bunch of the hotheads have taken my advice an set a up little bitch session for themselves, here's some advice on how to stay out of trouble"
* Expertise is relative. You may be an expert on shooting at the local pool hall, but when you post on a national website, you may encounter someone who has done and knows a whole lot more than you do about some particular subjects. Some of us like to meet those people. Some of you are threatened by it. Grow up.
* If you don't like the opinion of someone else, try to bring some factual information to back up your opinion on the subject.
* Keep your opinion on the subject, not your imagination about the other person.
* Recognize that if your facts are a few hunting incidents, and the other evidence is an extensive set of laboratory and field uses by ballistic engineers, forensic law enforcement, or the military, that your opinion doesn't carry near the value that you might think it does.
* If all you can do is engage in insults and fantasizing that the other person is a poor shot, never hunted, never held a job, or some other lame delusional crutch, don't bother to post.
* If you do post trash talk, don't be surprised if your bullying doesn't have the intended effect of making them leave for fresh air. They may just call your bluff. If you acted like that in public, someone would beat your butt three times a week until you straightened up. Just because you are hiding behind 1,000 miles of telephone line is no reason to expect to get away with it here.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 158
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 158 |
I really like that suggestion to only bring factual information to the discussion - how about we amend that a bit, and require some photographic evidence before we accept new information?
Naturally, published writers would already be covered.....
Whadda ya think?
Last edited by MikeGib; 07/12/06.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
- how about we amend that a bit, and require some photographic evidence before we accept new information?
Whadda ya think? I agree, and as soon as I find willing twins you will have photographic evidence..........grin
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,897
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,897 |
I sense the presence of a fragile ego in our midst...the big question is is it being ignored???
Steelhead-Finding twins may not be so hard but photogenic ones???There may lie the rub...
One man with courage makes a majority....
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,670
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,670 |
Lee I haven't read everything you've posted, just enough to let me know where you are coming from. (hint, it ain't a good place)
Steelhead photogenic is anything that don't make me puke or break your camera, post those pics and let the good times roll.
Roy, that was a damn fine post.
"This ain't dress rehearsal....it's the life you get to live, make it a good one."
TEAMWORK = a bunch of people doing what I say
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,891
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,891 |
11,534 members...11,534 unique personalities...11,534 opinions. Yet we suffer not much more than a pizzin' match once in a while.
What makes this place unique to anywhere I've seen so far is that all 11,534 members are allowed to voice whatever opinion they want to...or they don't, for whatever reason. Would be just another very boring place that resembles a crappy gun rag without that...and probably far fewer members as well.
What happens here is what folks want or they wouldn't join and post...you just need a thick skin some of the time...more often than not, folks make up and come to an understanding and all is well.
Take my very post here now for example with regards to the sentiment expressed so far in this thread...I don't visit "gun writers" much to make posts here cause I'm not a gun writer...and to be honest some of the topics discussed don't interest me at all. I cruz through and read a thread once in a while but in general I just go to what interests me elsewhere...
Yet, I post here now risking getting flamed for my opinion...so be it. I'm allowed to post here...no sign on the door saying I can't. But it does happen occasionally, to me and to others. I make my mistake by defending my opinion when that happens as others here feel they need to do also. Sometimes it gets ugly. If everyone here that posts is supposed to be an expert and the non posters just readers...then this place will die.
This continent we live on is a big place...the Campfire is a diverse cross section of it ALL. From wealthy professional hunter traveling far and away to the poor local guy who is lucky to hunt in his backyard let alone lucky enough to own a gun to hunt with. We got it all here...and it's a good thing. I know my turf and you know yours, sometimes the two views can't coincide due to geographical or social barriers even though we talk about the same thing. What works here might not work there and folks need to understand that and not flame a guy for wanting to voice an opinion on it.
When the dust settles though, there is collective knowledge which someone will learn from.
I've never been west of the Mississippi...never hunted elk or mule deer or big bears...but, I do as well as anyone in my environment. There are players and non players right here in my local...the Game Played though might not be on the same level as it is 3000 miles away. Doesn't mean I need to be ashamed or in awe...and it doesn't mean I need to be put down for it either.
Rifles...is where I do fall in awe...this place is full of toys I drool over. But, like many here of the 11,534 members...I've never had the ability to build custom gun after custom gun for the sake of custom guns. The cookies just don't fall right for some folks. So I/we do as best we can and learn how to get some darn good things going with stock gear...does that make us the Network Idiots?
No amount of Guru speak from the experts is gonna change the amount of cash flow it takes to build big dollar guns, but don't fault anyone for wanting to be part of the Game Played with basic tools. I kinda snicker a bit at reading what the expensive customs will do and know I got tweaked factory rigs that'll do the same thing. That's a concept a few here can't grasp, and I've been flamed for voicing that...but oh well.....
This place is all about hunting and guns...two things I hold dear to my being. I'd not be without any of it and greatly enjoy the ability to talk to others of like mind. The Campfire is a good place and the 11,534 members list is what makes it so. Could not have said it any better myself!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,259
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,259 |
* When your experience killing an animal says nothing to dispute the greater experience and more careful observations of experts, realize that posting a picture of it does nothing to make it relevant.
I think a lot of the animosity arises from people who simply do not understand the difference between opinion and fact. Having no formal training in the gathering and evaluation of field data, and no practice in it, they also mistakenly believe that their limited experience with the exceptional can be extrapolated as the norm. Even worse, they dismiss the engineers at bullet companies, law enforcement laboratories, and military weapons testing facilities, simply because they don't understand or don't like the evidence gathered by those tests and autopsies.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401 |
As a new member, I've found I spend more time reading than posting. Think I'm on the right track?
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,473
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,473 |
You're doing better than me. I need to re-focus.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,383
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,383 |
[color:"blue"] "If you acted like that in public, someone would beat your butt three times a week until you straightened up. Just because you are hiding behind 1,000 miles of telephone line is no reason to expect to get away with it here." [/color]
Think about your quote there. Spewing your "expertise" would probably earn you the same treatment over a real campfire.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 158
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 158 |
So.... help us out here, Lee..... are 'facts' that are made up as good as regular facts, or do we rank them somewhere between facts and opinions? Or maybe they're better than regular facts?
Naturally, when a picture or other physical evidence disputes a 'fact,' then we are to ignore that evidence.... correct?
While we're at it.... let's rank members too. How about this:
1. Members who claim to be engineers are at the top.
2. Members who can prove to be engineers aren't as good, obviously, since they have to prove themeselves.
3. Members who have killed something are down below that.... since if they were claiming to be engineers they wouldn't have to actually do anything to be knowledgable.
4. Members who are labeled as 'non-technical' by members who are claiming to be engineers ....
5. and finally, writers, because they clearly don't have a technical education, and actually might do something and then write about it and provide evidence to the public which contradicts known 'facts' and we can see what a pile of problems that is going to cause.
Sound about right?
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,687
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,687 |
Only thing I know is that I am damned glad that my hunting camps aren't anywhere as contentious as this forum. For whatever reason there seems to be some pretty grumpy folks with a hair trigger lurking. Maybe the middle of July just ain't a good time for us. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
The only time I have seen a hunting camp get as frisky as this forum is when we decided to play hearts instead of poker one time. Spent the whole night breaking up fights and the whole morning making peace. Never again!
Will
Smellin' a lot of 'if' coming off this plan.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,259
Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,259 |
If I only want to talk to engineers and scientists, I can do that at work. There are a lot of self-taught hobbyists who know more than PhDs on a subject. There are a lot more who don't know how little they know. I find it amusing when those who have no respect for genuine techical knowledge act insulted for being labeled "nontechnical", when they were acting so proud of it.
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Posts: 7,182
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Posts: 7,182 |
Even this discussion is heading south.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369 |
the folks on www.tacticalforums.com run a really tight ship. when you register on the forum they screen your submission for a couple days, and don't grant membership to everyone. Just for grins I registered with as little personal info as possible, and sure enough I was denied a logon. Newbies get bounced very quickly if they say something stupid, or particularly if they ask a question that has been answered numerous times before. The moderators expect you to go heavy on the search function before you ask a question. personally, I think they have gone too far the other way, but they do run a mighty tight ship and their posts are informative. they will toss a troll in less than a heartbeat.
Last edited by Dogger; 07/13/06.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,366
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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When I found 24 Hour Campfire, I was shickled titless to find a place where I could read the give and take of the likes of Mule Deer, Ken Howell, Phil Shoemaker and Steve Timm.
However, I am afraid 24 Hour Campfire is starting to deteriorate.
Itseems the forum is being taken over by a few "jackals" for lack of a better word, that lurk in one or more forums, and feel honor bound to post their opinions on every post, regardless of their level of expertise. If anyone dares to differ from their opinion by one iota, a most scathing personal rebuke is sure to follow. It seems as though as days go by, 24 Hour Campfire is dominated more by them, and less by the real deals.
Pareto, an old scholar, has been credited with the 80/20 rule that says something to the effect that 80% of any problem is caused by 20% of the people involved. That seems to apply here, I think 80% of us are here to be entertained and informed. The onanists that comprise the other 20% are here for no good.
My question to everyone, is, is it possible to create a forum like this, and somehow have it moderated well enough to exclude this 20% long before they p*** off all the gunwriters and everyone else? I would be willing to pay a modest amount to have access to a forum like that.
Also, if there are any gunwriters that haven't left in disgust, I'd like to know what three changes could be made so their experience here would be at least as pleasant as a root canal.
Thanks, all.
Royce "Onanists"............perfect diagnosis/classification. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Posts: 5,226
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My feeling about these concerns that have been raised is that I believe that most posts are offered as well intended answer's to someone's question(s) or comments. What seems to happen many times is that someone takes exception to those responses because they either don't understand the replies very well or they just pick out a sentence or two that they can find fault with. They then, oftentimes, take it personally for whatever reason and decide to run with it as if it was a personal affront.
If they didn't understand the question, all they would need to do would be to ask for clarification. If the initial poster takes exception to your question (asked in a non-confrontational manner) for whatever reason....just end your part of the involvement with that particular post. If clarification is offered and there are still comments to be made, state your opinion without disrespecting theirs and move on.
There are many members here that have far fewer posts than the more "senior" members. Senior meaning "time-in", not age or experience wise. There have been many senior members that have been quite helpful, constructive and just plain courteous to less senior members. A profound and encouraging # of senior members, actually. This says alot about these particular forum members as people and as team players. They set a very good example for the junior and/or younger members. Other's, well, not so....respectful. Getting your feet wet is never an easy thing to do, much less so when YOU THINK that all the other's in the pool are much more experienced swimmers than you are. If I were drowning, the last thing I'd do when a person extended himself to help me would be to ask how much experience he has in saving people before I allowed him to help me. I would like to think that he/she feels they have what it takes to assist me in a way that is going to benefit me and for no other reason.
There are probably many members here (seniors and juniors) that have a great deal more experience than I do concerning certain aspects of our shooting sports. I'm also fairly sure that just as many do not. When someone asks a question that I feel I am qualified to answer, I will attempt to assist them. If they choose to not read my comments because I don't have 1000+ posts, I haven't killed 10 elephants, 3 zebras, 9 polar bears, 4 liberals or for whatever other reason, so be it. There is no need to assume that posts made, are being made for any other reason than to be helpful.
I am just as guilty as the next member of "taking the bait" when it has been offered, jumping clean out of the water to engulf a few, actually. All the while, knowing better than to engage in that type of behavior. Many of us here are just competitive, opinionated SOB's that find it hard to resist those type of temptations or challenges. If we all made an effort to do so, I don't believe it would even be necessary to entertain any changes in the way we do business on this forum.
For the more "mature" members among us -- remember when we had "relations" in our younger years. Some were very memorable events while other's we would rather forget. Posts are like that. Some we learn from and will probably always remember. Other's we could care less about. But we sure never passed on or complained about the latter. Posts should be like that.
My .02's worth.
Last edited by magnumb; 07/13/06.
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