Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters How does a hot loaded 6.5 Swede compare to a 25-06?

Am I thinking rightly? Is this a fair comparison?

The virtue of the 25-06 being low recoil and flat(er) trajectory; do tailored loads in the Swede compare favorably?

(Assuming the use of modern actions with higher pressures)

No to both. Look in Nosler #7 the 120 BT in the 6.5 has a .458 bc and can be pushed 3000 fps while the 120 NPT in the 25 has a .391 bc and can be shot at just under 3200 fps in the 25-06. I have both in M70 pf rifles, the Swede is a lot more pleasant shooting. The gack-gack in the back of #7 says 4.5" more drop for the Swede at 500 with a 200 yd zero. Most of the 6.5 shooters here would elect for a higher bc 140 gr bullet in the 6.5 and rock on. The 25's suffer from a lack of trick high bc bullets other calibers have today. If your into muzzle blast and Walmart availability on the ammo buy the 25-06. Magnum Man

Hot 108's in a 260 will drift less, but have a skosh more drop. Either means diddly under 500 yards.

Speaking of muzzle blast... How does the muzzle blast compare on the .260 Remington, 6.5 swede, and .257 Roberts? Considering these three for a young shooter/ hunter.

Anecdotal info probably isn't going to give a true picture since there are a number of variables, which brings the question of WHAT are the variables for actual and perceived muzzle blast?
barrel length
bore diameter
which powder used
how much powder used
?chamber pressure?
?muzzle velocity?

other conditions not related to the cartridge would also play a role in muzzle blast, including lighting among others

I know it isn't a direct comparison, but I used a 24" barrel for the Swede and same for 25-06 and one of the top velocity powders for both. All of it could change or be changed, but gives a general idea of both cartridges loaded to 60K PSI running a 120 PT in the 25-06 and a 125 PT bullet in the Swede.

Cartridge : 6.5 x 55 Swedish
Bullet : .264, 125, Nosler PART SP 16320
Useable Case Capaci: 54.421 grain H2O = 3.533 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.150 inch = 80.01 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-22

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 84 42.64 2423 1630 30011 9671 87.9 1.553
-18.0 86 43.71 2487 1717 32114 10009 89.4 1.511
-16.0 88 44.77 2552 1808 34373 10337 90.8 1.470
-14.0 90 45.84 2617 1901 36798 10654 92.1 1.430
-12.0 93 46.90 2682 1997 39405 10958 93.3 1.385
-10.0 95 47.97 2748 2096 42212 11248 94.5 1.341
-08.0 97 49.04 2813 2197 45235 11522 95.5 1.298
-06.0 99 50.10 2879 2301 48493 11778 96.5 1.256
-04.0 101 51.17 2945 2407 52008 12015 97.3 1.217
-02.0 103 52.23 3011 2516 55808 12232 98.0 1.178 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 105 53.30 3076 2626 59917 12426 98.6 1.141 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 107 54.37 3142 2739 64339 12598 99.1 1.105 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 109 55.43 3207 2855 69098 12744 99.5 1.071 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 111 56.50 3272 2972 74245 12864 99.8 1.038 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 114 57.56 3337 3091 79820 12957 100.0 1.005 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 116 58.63 3401 3211 85868 13023 100.0 0.974 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by � 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 105 53.30 3229 2894 73173 12089 100.0 1.051 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 105 53.30 2866 2279 47762 12032 92.4 1.259


Cartridge : .25-06 Rem.
Bullet : .257, 120, Nosler PART SP 35643
Useable Case Capaci: 60.358 grain H2O = 3.919 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.250 inch = 82.55 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-25

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 84 46.48 2487 1649 30107 10887 94.5 1.575
-18.0 86 47.64 2553 1737 32213 11215 95.7 1.533
-16.0 88 48.80 2619 1827 34473 11521 96.9 1.492
-14.0 90 49.97 2684 1920 36900 11800 97.8 1.452
-12.0 92 51.13 2749 2014 39506 12052 98.6 1.406
-10.0 94 52.29 2815 2111 42306 12273 99.2 1.361
-08.0 97 53.45 2879 2209 45318 12463 99.7 1.317
-06.0 99 54.61 2943 2308 48562 12619 99.9 1.276
-04.0 101 55.78 3007 2409 52055 12741 100.0 1.236
-02.0 103 56.94 3069 2510 55820 12842 100.0 1.197 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 105 58.10 3131 2613 59892 12940 100.0 1.159 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 107 59.26 3193 2716 64290 13034 100.0 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 109 60.42 3253 2820 69051 13123 100.0 1.089 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 111 61.59 3314 2926 74213 13208 100.0 1.055 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 113 62.75 3374 3033 79813 13287 100.0 1.023 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 115 63.91 3433 3141 85863 13362 100.0 0.991 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by � 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 105 58.10 3260 2831 74015 12448 100.0 1.067 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 105 58.10 2934 2294 47717 13294 98.1 1.281

If I read beretzs's data correctly, the .25-06 has a 55 fps advantage at 59.9 kpsi for the powders he chose for the Partition bullets comparable in sectional density. That is practically a dead heat when considering all of the variables that affect velocity. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, once you get to the 120 grain-class bullets, the 6.5 has the advantage in ballistic coefficient that more than makes up for a slight difference in muzzle velocity.

I see your point. I guess that I am just looking for general impressions and experience with those cartridges. My guess would be that the Roberts would be the easiest on the shooter of the bunch.

wilkeshunter,

Here is my take on the comparison.

QuickLoad lists the following case capacities (grains of H2O)
.260 Rem 53.5
.257 Rob 56
6.5x55 57

If all else is equal - barrel length, muzzle velocity, bullet weight (e.g., 100 or 120 grains), bullet type (design), chamber pressure, specific powder, etc. - you're left with bore diameter (very close) and amount of powder.

The .260 Rem would have a very slight advantage over the other two because of the smaller case - it should, theoretically, require less powder to reach a given chamber pressure and muzzle velocity for a given bullet and powder. However, I think the difference probably would be very difficult to discern.

One thing to note is that the Speer #13 manual indicates .260 Rem start loads using their data shouldn't be as much below max loads as is typical for that cartridge capacity. Speer #13 .260 Rem starting loads are 2 grains below their max loads (their start loads are about 5% rather than 10% below max) with the explanation that pressures drop rather fast in the .260 Rem as powder charge weight is reduced. That would be something to consider if wanting to load reduced recoil loads, but I don't know why Speer identified that as an issue with the .260 Rem but not the 7mm-08 or .243, which have very similar case capacities (55 and 54 grains H2O, respectively vs. 53.5 for .260 Rem according to QuickLoad). That potential issue wouldn't be an issue if you were planning to load at least moderate to full pressure loads.

Holy schit, just pick one. It doesn't amount to anything.

I agree the differences are very minor. For a first rifle, choose a rifle that fits the shooter the best because the differences among .257 Rob, .260 Rem, and 6.5x55 are so small. I personally would go with a 6.5mm of some sort because of the bullets available for larger animals and longer range, but that isn't necessarily a consideration for a first gun that will be used on deer and smaller game.

Yep, that's it in a nutshell

Yeah, pretty much. The .25-06 will has about a 3-4% advantage in velocity over the 6.5x55 with the same bullet weights, and the 6.5x55 offers a little heavier bullet weights. But having shot a few animals with both I doubt anybody's going to see much difference at ranges out to 500 yards. Beyond that the 6.5's have an advantage, but not at what most hunters consider "normal" hunting ranges.

NAD = no appreciable difference

How does real world throat erosion compare?

Thanks for the feedback

If you are going to go long action, might as well do a 6.5-06, 270, or 280.

No messing with rim sizes, low pressure load data, varying twists, throats etc.

Short action, go with 260 or Creed.

Robert,

.25-06 barrels will erode faster, because more powder gas will be going through a slightly smaller bore.

None of those three long action cartridges match the recoil level of the 6.5 Swede and .25-06, and .277" bullets don't match the ballistics of 6.5mm bullets. There's no free lunch.

Also, why not load 6.5x55 to CIP levels (i.e., approx. 55 kpsi) in a modern bolt action? Shouldn't be that hard for one to figure out what loads are in that ballpark, and targeting the CIP max pressure of approx. 55 kpsi, or some lower level, still provides a substantial safety margin to keep one away from pressures where knowledgeable people start being concerned. In fact, I know of at least one European manufacturer that has published 6.5x55 data reflecting the CIP max pressure rather than the anemic SAAMI max pressure.

If you're having a rifle rebarreled or custom-built by a decent gunsmith, it shouldn't be that hard to get things right for a 6.5x55. Stick with one type (brand) of brass, make sure you get a 1:8" twist, and specify your rifle's throat or simply figure out the throat once you get the rifle.

The 6.5x55 cartridge is a model of both effectiveness and efficiency with the powders and bullets currently available, and even before the great powders and bullets we have now, it was a model of effectiveness dating back over 100 years.

I almost had a 6.5-06 built about seven years ago but I backed away because of the rumor/myth of severe throat erosion. AND- a guy at work said, "just get a 270"

Is there something cumbersome or awkward about 6.5-Swede bolt faces and rims sizes or something? I have never owned one. Heck-never actually seen one in person.

Does the 260AI solve some of slight (longer heavier bullet) disadvantages of the 260?

Had another friend at work that stumbled upon a ruger walking varminter they had back then in 25-06. First gun he ever learned to reload for and that thing was a tack driver. That was a long time ago, but the idea of a lazer beam trajectory and little recoil kinda stayed in my head all these years.

from my own experience with a 6.5 X 55 in a VZ-24, the 120 grain bullet can safely be loaded right along side a 120 grain bullet from a .25-06.....I use IMR-4350 and reach 3,000 FPS.....and yes, I don't have a way to measure pressure except to say it shows no signs of excess pressure anywhere.....the ole Swede is truly a marvelous cartridge for pronghorns and any deer in north America.