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Sometimes the truth is.

You're killing me..............That's funny.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Seriuosly, I would go with a 1911 stlye semi auto in the great 45 ACP chambering. I have used one of these since 1974 when I purchased my first one,can never go wrong with a 1911 in 45 cal.............................

Spot, I know you said the .45acp "seems too big," but it's really not, and the .45bore has much charm. The .45acp runs at a relatively low pressure, and the large diameter bullets stay large diameter while penetrating stuff. High speed (and high pressure, high muzzle blast) and the latest generation of wonder bullets aren't needed for the cartridge to perform. It's really a pussycat in the right gun. My wife weighs in at a buck-five, with very little shooting experience, and really likes shooting my Kimber.

I'm VERY biased in my view of the greatest auto pistol ever designed---------------the 1911. The 1911 deserves/requires some training time however, and while nuts like me think that's wonderful, I'd suggest a different design if a shooter looks at training as a "have to." There are other decent options out there too, and you really need to handle a few before writing a check. But for the chambering, it's hands-down the .45acp.

I have a Glock model 35 with night sights. It's a 40 caliber. I'm favorably impressed. It's around $500.00 I also have a model 4046 Smith and Wesson 40 caliber. I carried it on duty for around 12 years. I could never hit well with it. The main spring was too heavy. After I got the Glock, I got a reduced power spring from Wolf and it made a new gun out of it. I can't carry it on duty any more but now I don't want to trade it off. The double action pull is very similar to my model 19 Smith. If you look around you can get a used 4046 for around $200.00 to $250.00. The magazines hold 11 rounds. I think it fits and feels similar to a Colt 45 and it's stainless steel. It is a little heavy but a good holster helps distribute the weight. The Wolf spring is around $8.00 as I recall. Check out these guys. I have no affiliation with them.

Summit Gun Broker
PO Box 526
Grain Valley, MO 64029-9587

A bit more background to help you guys understand where I'm coming from....

I have owned in the past a few handguns but they never really fit what I needed so I got rid of them.

My first handgun was Redhawk 44 mag that I bought to carry while deer hunting. Thing weighted as much as the shotgun I was carrying which was somewhat impractical for a carry weapon vs. a primary one. The trigger pull was way, way too much so It wasn't a good pin gun.

I upgraded a notch and bought a S&W 629, This was in '87 and the Quality controll wasn't there. The cylinder wasn't swagged (it didn't have a ring at the front of the cylinder cartridge bores. Man you couldn't get a fired 44 out of that thing without leaving pock marks on your palm from slamming the ejector rod a half dozen times. I sent it back to smith to have that replaced and low and behold it got lost in the works. After a month or so I got a call from a master smith who apologized for the delay and asked me what I was using the longer barrelled 44 for. (it was pins and deer) He fixed her up and worked the trigger for me (WOW!) that sucker was like glass, and broke crisper than anything I've held since.

A few years after that I went overseas for nearly 6 years (military) and I finally sold that one when I came back because again it was too heavy to carry as a secondary weapon, the kick a bit much and lets face it - they weren't playing dirty harry movies at that time ( I was getting older).

At some point I moved to Colorado and wanted something to meet the ftlb requirement for elk hunting. This time being smarter (hahahha) I got a Taurus tracker 41 mag 4" titanium. Now this was an OK carry gun, super light. I ended up getting rid of this one because it was TOO LOUD - it's ported - My left ear is still ringing from the time I used it to close the deal on a coyote I down'd at close range. This was 3 years ago, and the louder ringing which started then - well I can hear it right now.

So where does that leave me in terms of what I like and don't like.

1) I don't like light handguns for plinking / target shooting - just don't need to beat up on yourself when your having fun. It's like dating mean women - I know some of you guys like that but I like smooth whiskey, and if I'm gonna get beat up by something it'll be a rifle.

2) Noise bothers me (lets not talk about gals here). Don't know if that can be worked into the equation but I do think about it.

3) I'd like an auto, I like revolvers for hunting mostly because I haven't found an auto back in the day I'd go for.

So here's what I'm thinking now.

Get a highly reliable 40 or 45 for target, and home protection. I want something I can shoot with alot to improve proficiency. If possible (and this is really my question) I'd like not to buy a second handgun (aside from the buckmark I already have).

I'm not sure what 40/45 fits both the highly reliable midsized or compact class that still is a comfortable target / pin shooter that I could use to carry (not too heavy) would be.

It might be better to for me to go with a larger frame one and then get a smaller carry revolver for hunting like a 32 or a 357 4".

Either way I'd like to get lazer grips for what ever I buy.

Spot

[Quote] by Spotshooter
2) Noise bothers me (lets not talk about gals here). Don't know if that can be worked into the equation but I do think about it.

It might be better to for me to go with a larger frame one and then get a smaller carry revolver for hunting like a 32 or a 357 4".[Quote]


If you don't like noise then for petes sake stay away from the 357 Mag ( they are extremely loud)................. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Most of us have more than one rifle thats 'best' for some task. Same with pistols. Your trying to have one gun do it all.

For instance a self defense gun that might be carried might not be ideal for deer hunting. Get more than one gun.

As to the noise a buddy of mine got fitted hearing 'aids' years ago. That was a good idea and his hearing is still good. I should have done the same.

I also look for different tools for different tasks. And when you
compromise, you have to give up some part of something.
Erring on the side of bigger, .40-45 cal will give you the ability
to deal with bears if they frequent your neighborhood.
But ammo costs will soar and squirrel hunting might not
prove highly productive. For the smaller calibers the reverse
holds true.

Sounds like you have decided to go to the larger caliber
range. Personally I would choose the .45acp because of
more pistol choices and lower cost ammunition.

I prefer steel frames. They're heavier, meaning less recoil.
And I am still unconvinced that ploymer or aluminum pistols
will age as well as stainless steel. Particularly 50 years down
the road.

The 1911 design is excellent if you like single action. I have
a kimber with the internal extractor. It's a nice pistol,
although expensive.

For carry, I do a Kel-Tec p32. There is little felt recoil in it.
I live in an urban/suburban environment. Discretion is
_extremely_ important. And it is well policed so there is
likely to be law enforcement on the scene fairly quickly.
Since two legged predators are the major problem, simply
having a pistol is the most important hurdle to overcome. If
you also have to consider cougar or grizzly, your taurus is the
far better choice.

For home I do a .357 revolver. I may not take that pistol
out to shoot or clean for several weeks at a time. I don't
want my first shot to stovepipe. If there are more than
two guys at my door and their clothes don't say police,
I'm going to get something bigger before I answer the
door.

On loud. There was a thread a while ago about firing pistols
in one's home. IIRC, JJ Hack pointed out that firing a
.357 mag or 44 mag in a small enclosed space can seriously
damage your hearing. This is even noticable at the indoors
range I use. The .357 mag out of a short barrel is quite
noticeable, even with hearing protection. Interestingly, the
super redhawk had a higher perceived noise than the 12
gauge shotgun next to it.

Chuck

You sound like a one handgun kinda guy. If you don't reload go for a .45 ACP or 9mm in a 1911 platform. Find the one that balances best for you, has the sights you like and just "feels" right.

I have a 1969 Colt 1911 Government Model that started out as a .38 Super. A 9mm barrel was also added and in addition 9x23 Winchester and 9mm Largo will also feed and fire from the BarSto .38 Super barrel. A SARCO ROTO 4M 7" .38 Super barrel also will run all three rounds at about 150-200 fps faster than the 5" barrel depending on the load. Then there is the matching .22 Conversion Unit that also has melted in BoMar sights and with a switch of the ejector there is a matching .45 ACP slide...it will also shoot .45 Super.

So with one 1911 TransformerToy one can have a gun that will travel anywhere. And if I really need to be serious about hunting deer I can pull the gripframe off and stick it into either the .38 Super or the .45 ACP MechTech Carbine Conversions..they are good for a 100 yard shot...

Bob

I have both a Delta Elite and a Glock 20. The rail cracking you refer to was solved early on. If you look at a 45 cal Colt 1911 and a Delta 1911, the Delta has had the rail milled out right over the takedown notch which was where the crack appeared. It was never more than a cosmetic deal that got a lot of panties in a wad so they just took out the spot. I've shot a coupla few thousand full power loads through mine and it is holding up nicely. I like 10mm but for the purposes stated by our compadre here, a 40 cal will fit his requirements nicely.

A couple of points. Any handgun gets pretty loud if it burns much powder and develops much pressure. My current .357 is a small framed, 3 inch M60 S&W. It doesn't make nearly as much noise as most .357's because I load it with only 6.5 grs. of Unique over 158 gr. swagged bullets. In other words like a warm .38 Special. All .357's fire .38 Special ammo.
9mm's and 40's don't tend to be as accurate as a good .45 ACP. 10mm's also tend to be pretty accurate. We are talking about say 2.5-3 inch groups vs. 1.5 inch groups for the .45's and the 10mm.
I've had no trouble shooting my 10 with reduced power ammo. Less noise and recoil. Federal's Hydra Shok 10mm ammo, for instance, is loaded to 40 S&W levels. It works fine. E

ROFLMAO.....

I hit mine high, across the back, and hardly lost any meat at all.

Don't want to contemplate what it would have looked like with a .500 Smith on a body shot....

There's been a bit of mention about Delta Elite 10mm 1911's. Wasn't there some bad years for that pistol. It was a high dollar, custom shop, type gun wasn't it? Or was it mostly scroll marks and hype?

Spotshooter, take a look at the Ruger 345, nothing fancy, fills the hand well, and shoots like a way more expensive hand gun that what it is. sure these guys will all try and sell ya expensive autos. For the most part every one of them are worth the coin you spend on them except AMT or Detonics. Stay away from them they have in my expirence both had feeding problems that never could be resolved. The Ruger is inexpensive and it works. I bought one for under $350 from a dealer new. Recoil is not bad and as usual the 45 is not as hard on the ears as a 357 or 44. money well spent for a packing gun.

Bullwnkl.

Anything 1911 .45 ACP for all 'round, excepting big bears.
357's too underpowered for the noise produced.
32 H&R Mag - Had a 95 gr. JHP splatter on the skull of an antelope. Hard cast would be better, and a good low noise small game getter.
A lot has been said for the longer, more powerful, more expensive, version of the 40. If you don't want the 45, go with the 40 in 1911 (does anyone make one?).
A Browning HP in 40 could be a good 2nd choice, and may fill the entire bill better than the 45. Factory springs require an adolescent male gorilla with a vise-like grip to operate the slide. I don't care for the mag disconnect or puny slide lock and safety, but all else sort of works.

The 1911A1 in .45ACP is never a bad choice.

It is the classic defensive handgun, and for good reason. And, there is nothing complicated about them at all... if you take the time to actually use it. Consider that the U.S. military trained folks who had never seen a handgun before to be experts with this handgun in a matter of weeks, on top of all the other training that they got. How complicated could it really be?

As for hunting with a .45ACP, just load CorBon DPXs or handload in the Barnes X bullets, and you're good for anything except the BIG bears out to 50 to 75 yards (if you can hit to that range).

So I've decided long term I'm going for two (at least) to cover the need here.

Knowing I'll get a 45 for the plinker / target / defene gun I'm into the question of a light weight not to powerful, not too loud handgun or revolver for hunting / carry.

That brings it to one of the following chamberings (In my mind) 380, 9mm, 32, or possibly 357/38.

So I've decided long term I'm going for two (at least) to cover the need here.

Knowing I'll get a 45 for the plinker / target / defene gun I'm into the question of a light weight not to powerful, not too loud handgun or revolver for hunting / carry.

That brings it to one of the following chamberings (In my mind) 380, 9mm, 32, or possibly 357/38. I'm going to have to search for a 4 to 6 inch auto verision that is light weight and fits the bill. I want to be able to hit squirrels (they love eating my tree stands) from 20 paces (I'm squirrel averse now).

I haven't looked at autos in so long it's gonna take a while before I rule them out and look for an slimmer light auto. I would however really like a midsize auto that is accurate, and light.

BTW - what's with the mag craze in handguns these days. I think a HG that is easy to place a shot with is twice as good as one your holding hard so it doesn't fly when squeezed off.

Spot

That confuses me a little, Spot. I would think that the catagories should be "plinker/target/hunter" and "defense/carry". By "light weight not to powerful, not too loud", do you mean something still bigger than a 1911? That would make sense to me, but I don't get the "hunting/carry", unless you mean just for carrying to hunt with. Let's go with that...

Since you now already have a most versatile pistol (1911) - have you given any thought to a Contender for hunting?

On your question's first variation, I was going to say there are three "traditional" auto cartridges that fill the bill. 45 ACP, 10mm, and 38 Super. The 45 and 38 need to be +P if you are hunting deer-sized game with them. They will always be marginal.

The 1911 platform needs to be one with beefed-up springs for the 10mm.

For the second variation of your question, I guess count me as confused too. It seems to rule out deer as a potential target. I'd say just get a .22 if you hadn't added the concealed carry aspect. An Officer's size handgun in your choice of caliber would seem to be a good choice. OR you could go with the Kahr.